Stupid civilian question here - obviously this would differ mission to mission but just roughly, once connected, how long would it take to fill up a heavy? How about a fighter? Just trying to imagine how long you guys have to hold that position.

 

In the F-4, the Tech Order told the Tanker to use 2 pumps to deliver fuel to us. I learned quickly during the Gulf War (from my Flight Lead, a much more experienced guy) that with 2 pumps, we were burning it as fast as we were taking it.

He told the boomers "Four pumps!" A few times they protested (I believe four was only supposed to be used for B-52s!), but he always got them to do it.

With 4 pumps, we would take 6-8000 lbs in about 6-8 minutes. I honestly believe with 2 it would take at least 35 minutes....if you made any progress at all.

If the tanker was above FL240, and we were getting full (with three tanks and a load of missiles), you would have to put one engine in minimum afterburner to hang on during the turns. You would use the other engine to modulate your position.

And I would disconnect from the boom, and having the biggest freaking knot in my back from the nervous tension of trying to hang on. Refueling the slatted-wing F-4 was not easy.

The highest I ever refueled was FL290 or 300, and I was physically a wreck when we disconnected. I think we all were.

 

Wow...It doesn't get said enough - nothing but respect for you guys.

 

I flew E-3 from mid 2000 until late 2007. Couple of things I want to bring up.

1) When the KC-135 refueled us with 4 pumps working the transfer rate was around 6000lbs per minute. The most fuel I ever had in the tanks was just under 155k, 344K inflight max weight with some flight/g restrictions.

2) Gross weight of the E-3, gross weight of tanker, CG, what country the KC-135 tanker was from, refueling altitude, and refueling track (straight line) or anchor (25 miles turn 180 degrees, race track pattern) all affect the difficulty refueling. I am sure I missed some items, which affect the process. I have never refueled above FL260 because the E-3 was a pig above 260. If a KC-10 showed up to refuel us and she was at max gross weight and I was going to max gross weight there was no way I was going to be able to keep up on an anchor toward the end of the refueling process. Anchors where used most often while we where deployed. As I got close to my max weight we would be in at MRT (Military Rated Thrust).

3) Refueling in an E-3 is all hand flown. We don't have an autopilot for refueling nor do we have any systems that make it easier like power assist. I am not a Buff guy but I have been told that they have something like power steering that is used in AR (air refueling). One of you Buff guys can chime in here.


KC10 FATboy did a good job explaining the process.

For me the hardest time air refueling was when I was over Afghanistan behind a French KC-135 at night. The French crew would not turn their lights up at all. I think they where on the lowest setting and instead of leaving their throttles alone in the turns (we where on an anchor) they would push up the throttles every time they turned and pull away from us. I had to cheat to the inside of the turn just a bit to hang on, as we got close to the end of the refueling cheating to the inside of the turn wasn't enough and we would fall off the back end of the boom.

My longest flight was 18.8hrs with three refuelings, Tinker to somewhere in the Middle East non-stop.

The best AR pilots I saw were the Buff pilots that transferred to the E-3. Maybe something to do with CFIC that they went too.

 

You'd be late to the arip anyway.

 

Nobody uses the ar mode of the autopilot. It sucks. All hand flown for 99% of Buff guys.

 

While the first word which came to my mind is a form of excrement, I am compelled by polite company to instead declare you are full of bluster.

When I went through Castle in the early 80s on my way to a receiver variant of the -135, I had an opportunity to spend one brief session in a facility specifically designed and dedicated to teaching receiver air refueling. The B-52 Air Refueling Part Task Trainer consisted of a dedicated building with a simulator, complete with realistic (for its time) visual, an array of supporting training devices and computer banks, all supported by a dedicated staff of technical support and maintenance, as well as schedulers and instructors. It was there where I got my first glimpse of A/R from the receiver end of the boom.

Ask yourself this. If receiver A/R was so dadgum easy, why did the Air Force invest so much money and resources into a device dedicated to teaching that task, and that task only? If it was so easy, they should have been able to teach the procedures in a classroom, and go practice it in flight on the first sortie.

I don't know what all the different communities do or have done in the past, or what they do today. I do know that in some airframes, copilots are not allowed to close beyond pre-contact without an Instructor who is specifically certified to instruct air refueling. Where I was, every aircraft commander could supervise copilot refueling. We did an awful lot of refueling -- rarely flying a sortie without it. Other folks had a hard time staying current. I would venture that the pilot flying in that video was on the low experience end of that spectrum. But whether you did it a little and struggled with it, or did it a lot and were very proficient -- it was hard, and dangerous.

Remember when B-52 pilots had to wear parachutes and helmets to A/R? Was that a measure taken for comofort, or did it recognize the hazard?





CFIC -- Consolidated Flight Instructor Course, for KC-135 and B-52 Instructors. As long as the weather allowed, we all did the whifferdill while in contact. It was a confidence maneuver which demonstrated that the success of the aerial refueling had little to do with the attitude of the two airplanes -- bank, pitch, speed. Successful refueling depends on the smooth, stable platform provided by the tanker and the deliberate, steady inputs made by the receiver. If the receiver concentrated on the tanker, he would be surprised to see the strange horizon relative to the airplanes shown in the pictures.







.

 

Pretty sure EVERY receiver pilot is hand flying the closure from precontact/astern. For tanker pilot...optional.

I'm sure the reason a breakaway wasn't called was because both the Boom & the AWACS were probably caught off guard with the near mid air. As a receiver pilot, I care more about using my limited brain cells to fly my jet away from the tanker rather than to toggle the mic and say breakaway.

 

Roughly 15 mins to take a "big gulp" in the E-3.

 

"Video removed"
Is this the same one?
E-8 AWACS Air Refueling gone wrong.. - YouTube