Cleared Pre Contact....
10-20-2012, 08:56 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by zach141
Learning to air refuel in a heavy ain't easy!
Reminds me of a deployment riding on a KC-10. Somewhere over the north atlantic, the new 2Lt co-pilot is getting checked out on AAR. We were trying to play dice and I think I picked them out of the air at least twice as we went to zero-G. In between "bunts" we got to hear the boom clattering across the top of the fuselage as the boomer tried to plug the dancing tanker. Not comfy at all.
10-20-2012, 02:23 PM
#7
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,945
1:That video could have ended at about the 45 second mark.
2: Who actually guides the plane in? Does the boom operator give final closure commands? Once in close (since the port is on the roof) I am assuming that the boom operator is the one who actually makes the connection?
3: On the side for other videos was a 1:30 minute video of a fueler refueling a 737 at BOS using the underwing single point.....who the hell would think to record, let alone post something like that??!!
2: Who actually guides the plane in? Does the boom operator give final closure commands? Once in close (since the port is on the roof) I am assuming that the boom operator is the one who actually makes the connection?
3: On the side for other videos was a 1:30 minute video of a fueler refueling a 737 at BOS using the underwing single point.....who the hell would think to record, let alone post something like that??!!
10-20-2012, 02:45 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,096
Air Refueling is completely a visual or close formation procedure. The boom operator will signal or radio for the receiver to move into position. There are Pilot Director Indicators (PDIs) which tell the pilot if the receiver aircraft is high, low, fore or aft. These lights will only work if the boom operator gives commands to the pilot prior to a contact (perhaps to a pilot who is struggling) or they're automatic once a contact is initiated.
In my opinion, it appears both aircraft are at fault. The receiver failed to stabilize in the contact position. The receiver aircraft kept moving in and up. The boom operator made contact to the receiver while they weren't stabilized (still moving in and up). This caused either an inner limit or upper limit disconnect. Now the fun part. After the disconnect, the receiver moves down too fast. This causes (can't tell without more information like a flight data recorder) the tanker's autopilot to kick off and sent the tanker nose down. From what we see looking out the back, it appears the AWACS pitched up into the tanker ... this is probably not the case. So then the AWACS pilot pushes over really hard to keep from hitting the tail of the tanker. Also, we can't hear the radios, but it appears that neither aircraft called for an emergency breakaway, a procedure designed to quickly and safely separate the aircraft.
In my opinion, it appears both aircraft are at fault. The receiver failed to stabilize in the contact position. The receiver aircraft kept moving in and up. The boom operator made contact to the receiver while they weren't stabilized (still moving in and up). This caused either an inner limit or upper limit disconnect. Now the fun part. After the disconnect, the receiver moves down too fast. This causes (can't tell without more information like a flight data recorder) the tanker's autopilot to kick off and sent the tanker nose down. From what we see looking out the back, it appears the AWACS pitched up into the tanker ... this is probably not the case. So then the AWACS pilot pushes over really hard to keep from hitting the tail of the tanker. Also, we can't hear the radios, but it appears that neither aircraft called for an emergency breakaway, a procedure designed to quickly and safely separate the aircraft.
10-20-2012, 05:08 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Work
Posts: 506
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
Air Refueling is completely a visual or close formation procedure. The boom operator will signal or radio for the receiver to move into position. There are Pilot Director Indicators (PDIs) which tell the pilot if the receiver aircraft is high, low, fore or aft. These lights will only work if the boom operator gives commands to the pilot prior to a contact (perhaps to a pilot who is struggling) or they're automatic once a contact is initiated.
In my opinion, it appears both aircraft are at fault. The receiver failed to stabilize in the contact position. The receiver aircraft kept moving in and up. The boom operator made contact to the receiver while they weren't stabilized (still moving in and up). This caused either an inner limit or upper limit disconnect. Now the fun part. After the disconnect, the receiver moves down too fast. This causes (can't tell without more information like a flight data recorder) the tanker's autopilot to kick off and sent the tanker nose down. From what we see looking out the back, it appears the AWACS pitched up into the tanker ... this is probably not the case. So then the AWACS pilot pushes over really hard to keep from hitting the tail of the tanker. Also, we can't hear the radios, but it appears that neither aircraft called for an emergency breakaway, a procedure designed to quickly and safely separate the aircraft.
In my opinion, it appears both aircraft are at fault. The receiver failed to stabilize in the contact position. The receiver aircraft kept moving in and up. The boom operator made contact to the receiver while they weren't stabilized (still moving in and up). This caused either an inner limit or upper limit disconnect. Now the fun part. After the disconnect, the receiver moves down too fast. This causes (can't tell without more information like a flight data recorder) the tanker's autopilot to kick off and sent the tanker nose down. From what we see looking out the back, it appears the AWACS pitched up into the tanker ... this is probably not the case. So then the AWACS pilot pushes over really hard to keep from hitting the tail of the tanker. Also, we can't hear the radios, but it appears that neither aircraft called for an emergency breakaway, a procedure designed to quickly and safely separate the aircraft.
PS read the comments-a guy/girl who says he/she was the boom posted
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