reCALcitrant

Hey Tony. Agree to disagree on some points. However, I didn't mean for the honest ribbing to come off as arrogant. The Toad comment was in loving jest for my tanker bros. Sarcasm and humor don't get through with no voice inflection. Peace out.

Vito

Crewdawg,
You wrote,
"This is valid, there is a reason they were sent to an aircraft requiring two pilots... "

Whether you said that in jest or not I can tell you that my C-17 squadron has a few ex F-15, F-16, A-10, and B-1, oh I forgot an F-4 guy years ago, either way they all said how difficult it was AR'ing in the heavies, compared to their fighters etc. Again, the discussion revolved around the difficulty of some airframes vs others in AR, not whether heavy drivers were less skilled at it or whether a C-17 pilot was as skilled as BUFF pilots who view AR as admin (?) really, No offence to BUFF drivers ReCALcintrant, but Nobody wanted a Buff back in 87 when I graduated, so I'm glad to see the skill level of the Buff fleet has risen so much over the years, It was pretty bad back in the day. Also, to dispel a myth my unit has at least 10 DG's/Top Sticks from UPT that wanted to fly heavies for whatever reasons, so don't be too fast throwing the "heavy drivers=less skilled moniker around. Personally I'd have given my left leg to fly fighters, but my class washed out over 65% of us in UPT, and we were only assigned 2 fighters for 25 students. Much different times (1986-1987 Columbus AFB) than now, where a class starts out with 25 studs and graduates 23...I wonder how some of you superior types would have fared back then?
BTW a common reason for washing guys out was if they were too cocky or good, they would test them and turn the heat up to see if they could handle the added pressure. I kid you not, we washed out some really good guys because they couldn't handle the stress. That was the mentality then..maybe others can chime in to confirm my Numbers but they are listed

reCALcitrant

Absolutely agree Vito. I've always been a reservist so I had my plane before UPT. I've seen some less than stellar pilots flying Buffs. This kind of backs up my point about how hard it is though, right? And yes, for Buff's, AR is admin on the way to bombing. We brief it for all of 2 minutes of 2 hours in the brief. Since you graduated from UPT 25 years ago, things have changed several times. Including a plane called the T-1. Only 8/30 fly T-38's. My guess is the lack/less of formation flying on the T-1 side has made it more difficult for the guys in that track to get used to doing AR. Just a thought. Again, I wasn't trying to pick a heavy/fighter fight. At UPT, instructors are from every airframe. Believe me, there's good and not so good from every MWS.

crewdawg

It was in jest, and i'm quite certain all of the guys you just mentioned would have got it, laughed, fired something back and moved on...not get all defensive.

I didn't realize people would get so butt hurt or defensive about a joke. So I'll just leave this here...

Flyinhigh

Just thought of another "war" story about AR (sort of). TDY to MacDill for a week to support F-16 new guy AR training. Took off in an A model and had some problems getting the nose gear to retract. During the big departure turn back over the field we cycled the gear a few times and finally got the nose gear to safely retract (boom operator had left the downlock in!). After the flight, we were in the squadron drinking a few beers when one of the new F-16 guys who had observed all of this from the ramp asked us why the gear cycled so many times. My copilot jumped in and started some tale about the heavy gross weights, long taxi and takeoff roll, gear needs cooling, automatic temperature sensing system detemines number of times for doors to cycle, yadda, yadda. Four 2nd Lts. are all eating this up while four F-16 IPs are trying to keep a straight face.

Vito

Crewdawg,
That is funny!