shrsailplanes

How often are captains paired with captains on a tour? Is that additional expense passed on to the owners or does NetJets eat that?

sounddoc

Can't speak for netjets, but at our fractional this happens all the time. The owners pay for the flight, not for the crew. As we're salaried, it's a company cost, and the mechanics of it come down to crew availability and scheduling. Just like if the restaurant manager takes your order, it still costs the same.

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jetlag7

Considering that every pilot is fully type-rated and "Captain qualified" technically speaking, the answer would be 100% of the time.

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GeeWizDriver

Depends on the fleet and the PiC-SIC ratio in that fleet. Happens all the time in mine and will start happening more as of the next few months.

The cockpit pilot pairing is completely opaque to the customer in back. Absolutely no difference to them in cost or otherwise.

shrsailplanes

So, NetJets doesn’t mind captains flying together despite the extra cost to the company. There’s no real motivation to hire then other than if they ever start pushing that magic 4.7 pilots per airplane number.

Flyfalcons

Usually you pay double for that kind of action, Cotton.

sounddoc

Here's how to think of it - and again, not netjets, but another fractional which i'm sure is the same;
You want your operation to be robust - if everyone's a captain (in a large operation, they're not) then you never have crew pairing issues. imagine a case with 6 pilots, 3 planes, even split of FO's and captains. To cover the day's flight, you would hypothetically need all 6 pilots to crew 3 planes. if a sick day or vacation knocks one of those pilots out, you are now out 2 pilots (one pairing) and therefore one plane. you now need to cover the day with only 2 planes which might not be possible.

Not the best example, but you see where I'm going with this. there are training considerations (i,e, two captains, one is an IP), vacation times, mechanical issues, geographic coverage, weather, etc..., which all effect a schedule. Being able to create more crew pairings is beneficial to the company and greatly outweighs any cost to the company.

It sounds like you might be coming from the 121 world - remember, here in fractional paradise we're salaried. I get paid a fixed base yearly salary, even if I don't fly all year. The extra captain pay is insurance to crew scheduling that I can be used in any seat and in any airplane (in our company's case anyway.)

Hope this clears up any confusion!

shrsailplanes

I was just wondering with all the contractual upgrades coming up if that creates a need to hire. Clearly, that is not the case. I have been waiting for my in person interview since last April. It’s clear now that until NetJets shrinks by @283 pilots, there is no need to hire.

Before Covid, they were hiring pretty steady. I guess priorities have shifted even though business is going well for them.

In my line of work (121 pilot), captains can’t fly right seat unless they are a check airman.

GeeWizDriver

It's really not that big a deal in our world. PIC/PIC pairings happen all the time. I actually prefer it because, in my fleet, if we have a ferry leg, the SIC gets to fly from the left seat (most fleets the SIC flies ONLY from the right--long story). That means shuffling headsets and ipads, adjusting seats, yada yada. Typically, when paired with another PIC, you change seats by the day. Much simpler.

As to future pilot demand, I think they are still waiting to see how many take their signing bonus parting gift and punch out, what happens with the bid re-shuffle that is about to occur, and the economic outlook for the rest of the year before they commit to any hiring. I still think 2022. Sorry, I wish I could be more encouraging.

wankel7

The seniority list is over 75 percent PICs.