FracCracka

I’m convinced that Signature is keeping both afloat.

JMO127

Keep taking out ads targeting the newer folks. See how far that gets you. Ha. I laugh from the outside as most others currently are. Go pants on fire with pitchforks and whatever the folks at the tip think is right. The latest ad twists the facts pretty blatantly. It's not about facts right? Union should publish the training failures with regard to new hires and the old guys just camping out until punch out. Bet I know which one will be higher. Show the correlations between the "got a number to call crowd" and the ones that don't. Palace commander and his minions won't dare do that. Doesn't fit the narrative. Before you ask, delta American and united don't go into aspen. The regional guys do. Having been one of those guys, I can tell you ASE eith a 1000hr right Seater is no different than with a 5000 hr guy. To say you'd likely not get on the plane is BS. They do sim training then one in theater if they're lucky. Then off you go with the blessing to do it again with a 1000hr R-ATP guy. No different than NJ other than its not a scheduled operation. The job IS NOT HARD. Stop making it sound like you cure cancer flying into JAC ASE or Buffalo. Geez. I'd be more concerned for captains who go from the Phenom to the global and then are making decisions over 40W when/if things go south. Just saying. The job isn't hard. At least not as hard as the union tries to sell it to whatever the target audience is or may be.

MinRest

The problem is, you are talking about changing the entire identity of how NJASAP justifies the demand for higher pay. Nobody pays more to fly private jets over the span of a career than NJA, unless you find some unicorn 91 gig. The continued path to try and keep up with the airlines causes them to make up reasons to justify their position. Most NJA pilots agree with it and will argue it. I laughed at the latest NJASAP ad. ASE and JAC aren't challenging at all, especially when you consider that you can go into some insane airports with made-up visual approaches to some random dude's ranch that you have never seen before. Of all the challenging airports I have flown to in my career, ASE and JAC are not on that list and probably don't make the top 10.

New hires aren't the problem. I almost wonder if NJASAP is trying to further create hiring issues for the company by chastizing them for being lower time in hopes that they will quit faster and/or not go to NJA. Very odd tactic. Either NJA pilots are the highest trained or they aren't, can't have it both ways. NJASAP seems to sell the idea that the pilots are the highest trained yet lack the skill to operate at airports people go to on a daily basis at every other operator.

I fully agree with you. They are focusing on ASE yet new hires are going into airplanes that can fly all over the world and have no international experience. Flying the tracks to a foreign airport is way more challenging than Aspen will ever be.

Swedepilut

40W is easy.. You’re going back to gander. 30W get’s more fun lol.

Swedepilut

Who’s flying the tracks. 20 years of random route…….

jtf560

The union is concerned with getting FSI to teach reasonably well to everyone and they don't try to say the low time pilots are failing the sim training at any higher rate. They are saying that low time pilots don't have the same experience as those with higher flight times and that the overall training program is doing nothing to address this discrepancy. The low time pilots are getting blasted out on line as fast as possible to cover demand and are flying with many a PIC that isn't a good mentor or maybe some that aren't particularly strong pilots to begin with. When the right seaters were much more experienced, that could make up for the weaker left seater. To dispute that low experience that can fly the heck out of the sim is the same or better than a normal level stick and rudder pilot that does have a ton of experience is not being honest. The union is going for death by a thousand cuts and now some of those cuts are targeted at owners and prospective owners over the very real lack of experience that is being hired while still touting all the safety that our massive experience brings. These ads are not aimed at any pilots. Lower time pilots are specifically applauded by union leadership while we try to force a new and better training footprint. I guess not everyone reads the union emails or messages on the union board from the leadership that address this.

Please enlighten us with the training the captain receives at the regionals for ASE and their currency requirements vs how it is done at NetJets. I've spoken with pilots who did this at the regionals. They had a lot more training than the NetJets maybe one approach a year in the sim training. The regional ASE pilots I spoke with also went a lot and had to maintain currency. The average pilot at NetJets probably doesn't fly there even yearly. Explain how that is anywhere near as safe as the regional way. I'm really not sure why you disparage a pilot group trying to get better training a more money. You may not agree with how it is trying to be accomplished, but you also certainly aren't offering any better suggestions.

AirBear

I spent 12 years at NJA flying light cabin jets and I think I can count on my fingers how many times I saw ASE. Being CLT based most my tours were concentrated east of the Mississippi River. It was a treat to get out west occasionally and see some different places.

JMO127

are you needing a reason to justify your existence and flying into ASE twice a year in the cute Phenis? Ok here's one or three.

1. It's not hard. You don't cure cancer. It's another airport that happens to be at 7800ft.
2. If it's not 5000/5 don't go down into the valley. Again simple.
3. LINDZ9 doesn't get any easier or harder than any other RNAV STAR. VNAV and roll. If you have the climb performance what's the issue?
So tell me again whats hard about that?
So JAC you say? OK. VNAV to the ILS in 200VV. Easy. If it's not there, click click and push the TLAs forward and fly the missed. Again what's hard?
07FA you say? OK hardest thing you have to do is watch out for errant golf shots on roll out. NEXT!
AMS? EASY. READ THE NOTES! NEXT!
TEX? Come on. It's a 9000ft strip that has an RNAV. 500 click click and land. (I hear the hand flying makes you senior guys nervous) If the winds aren't right YOU DONT GO!

So again, what's the challenge? Problem is this. You have buyers remorse and you're looking for a reason or sector to blame. So you pick your immature and out of touch battle with training and "challenging" airports campaign. The union and its sheep are the greatest enemy to advancement at NJA. Themselves. So what union regurge do you have for that? Ask the palace keeper what you should say and kindly report back on ACTUALLY how hard the job really is. You can't reason with stubbornness.

jtf560

Let me make sure I get your message. You hate the union leadership and don't like how they are trying to accomplish their job. You don't believe we should attempt to force better sim training and training, in general, for lower time pilots. You believe we all have remorse over our career choices if we are at NetJets. Do you also think we should go into full surrender mode and not try any and every legal way to improve our contract and safety? Do you have any actual suggestion for the union leadership to try? Your ridiculing every attempt seems to indicate your desire for full capitulation to management's demands/ accepting the POS offer they made and full leadership resignation. Any attempts to improve things seem to greatly bother you. What shall we do to better things?

HeavyD

Do you want to sign my logbook too?