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Old 12-03-2018, 03:48 PM   #1  
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Default Asked to violate FARs,Quit, Training Contract

So I'm not one to say running out on a training contract is okay just to take a better job. But what about when you feel your certificate is in jeopardy because you are blatantly asked to violate the FARs multiple times by your DO?



I wish he never would have signed the thing in the first place like I told him but this is what my son is going thru right now and I don't know how to help him other then to help him fin a good lawyer. Does he have a case to get free of this? He has documented instances in some cases with witnesses. Blatant black and white stuff not the usual gray area subtle pressuring that is the norm in 135. I mean my boss has his moment but he's never asked me to straight but regs. My son's has.



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Old 12-03-2018, 03:51 PM   #2  
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Care to elaborate on the details?


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Old 12-03-2018, 04:16 PM   #3  
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FAA Hotline. Don’t be a bystander.
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:59 PM   #4  
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FAA Hotline. Don’t be a bystander.

I believe he already did that. That's got little to do with the nasty-gram from their lawyer demanding payment.
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:18 PM   #5  
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I believe he already did that. That's got little to do with the nasty-gram from their lawyer demanding payment.
Can't sue for a contract when you're out of business! /s
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:28 PM   #6  
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Can't sue for a contract when you're out of business! /s

Not entirely accurate. If a company becomes insolvent due to mismanagement or it's operating license is revoked (Air Carrier Cert.) then it goes into receivership and the attorneys representing the company's principles can will and do go after money owed to the company. They can do this until the receivership process is completed and the company is legally dissolved. A corporate bankruptcy is almost always accompanying a receivership. In larger operations that takes years, so my son would be at risk for legal action even if the company was put out of business by the FAA who can't actually put a company out of business, they can only revoke any certificates, LOA, operating authorities etc.

Believe it or not the loss of a Part 135 Cert. doesn't always kill a company. While they would have to surrender operational control many continue on by having another certificate holder do the charter work for the aircraft they own.

Last edited by MCRN; 12-03-2018 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:09 PM   #7  
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I know nothing about your son’s situation but let me be the devils advocate here for a moment.

Having signed a training contract and being pressured to break regulations are two completely unrelated items.

Did he sign? Yes
Did he receive the training? Yes
Was he provided with employment after completing said training? Yes

Contract states he agreed to stay for specified period of time after receiving specified training.

He leaves, he pays.

Don’t leave just refuse the flight.
Easier said then done but you can’t just pick up and leave with every little titbit.
Very much possible they would have left him alone from there on as being the ‘stickler’ and pressuring other pilots to take the flight.

I’ve worked for a company that did that.
They would back off as soon as you drew a line in the sand and they’d turn to the pilots that always said yes.
They made my life miserable as far as scheduling and giving away the sugar trips to junior pilots but hey I finished my year and walked away without a violation.

We all know flying without a working navlight or landing light is against the regs but it doesn’t make it as dangerous as going below MDA on a night approach.

Slippery slope I know but in real life 99% will take that flight out of a remote airport, not your MX base obviously.

Part of the maturing process of knowing when to say no and when to accept it and fight another day.
Is this a matter of “interpretation”?
DO says this is my opinion and it’s legal and pilot disagrees?
I would accept the flight once I’ve gotten an opinion from the POI.

‘Excuse me Mr DO, sir.......how does our POI Mr Allmigthy feel about this?
Would you have any objections if I ask him? What was his phone number again?’
Get any opinion from the FAA POI in writing.

Either stay and fight the system or walk and pay is what I say.

Sorry....
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:19 PM   #8  
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Originally Posted by MCRN View Post
So I'm not one to say running out on a training contract is okay just to take a better job. But what about when you feel your certificate is in jeopardy because you are blatantly asked to violate the FARs multiple times by your DO?



I wish he never would have signed the thing in the first place like I told him but this is what my son is going thru right now and I don't know how to help him other then to help him fin a good lawyer. Does he have a case to get free of this? He has documented instances in some cases with witnesses. Blatant black and white stuff not the usual gray area subtle pressuring that is the norm in 135. I mean my boss has his moment but he's never asked me to straight but regs. My son's has.



Comments? Thoughts? Smartass replies?
This is what ****es me off with 135 operators and promissory notes. They know they've got you where they want you and there's nothing you can do but pay the cash and bail if you don't like things.

I was speaking with a 135 operator and had the opportunity to view their contract. The stickler for me was the terms and it was not pilot friendly. I opted out of employment as there was too much risk and not enough reward.

As for your situation and your son, this is not a good scenario and I hate that for you guys. I would consult an aviation attorney and see what they say. You may have some ground if he has clearly substantiated claims of where/how they broke FAR's and his plastic is jeopardized. May be some legal ground and a way out, but it probably wouldn't be cheap.

I hope everything works out for you guys and would like to hear how things transpire.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:20 PM   #9  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
I know nothing about your son’s situation but let me be the devils advocate here for a moment.

Having signed a training contract and being pressured to break regulations are two completely unrelated items.

Did he sign? Yes
Did he receive the training? Yes
Was he provided with employment after completing said training? Yes

Contract states he agreed to stay for specified period of time after receiving specified training.

He leaves, he pays.

Don’t leave just refuse the flight.
Easier said then done but you can’t just pick up and leave with every little titbit.
Very much possible they would have left him alone from there on as being the ‘stickler’ and pressuring other pilots to take the flight.

I’ve worked for a company that did that.
They would back off as soon as you drew a line in the sand and they’d turn to the pilots that always said yes.
They made my life miserable as far as scheduling and giving away the sugar trips to junior pilots but hey I finished my year and walked away without a violation.

We all know flying without a working navlight or landing light is against the regs but it doesn’t make it as dangerous as going below MDA on a night approach.

Slippery slope I know but in real life 99% will take that flight out of a remote airport, not your MX base obviously.

Part of the maturing process of knowing when to say no and when to accept it and fight another day.
Is this a matter of “interpretation”?
DO says this is my opinion and it’s legal and pilot disagrees?
I would accept the flight once I’ve gotten an opinion from the POI.

‘Excuse me Mr DO, sir.......how does our POI Mr Allmigthy feel about this?
Would you have any objections if I ask him? What was his phone number again?’
Get any opinion from the FAA POI in writing.

Either stay and fight the system or walk and pay is what I say.

Sorry....

Thanks, I understand they are inherently two different issues. The FARs are the FARs, contract law is contract law. That being said I would think he's got a case for a counter suit on the premise of being frequently asked to violate the law then getting treated differently when he refused. Is that not a "hostile work environment"? I mean I'm no lawyer but there's gotta be some way for him to make an issue I would think.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:27 PM   #10  
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What is the price you’re willing to pay for being right?
If he’s left the company or not get the POI involved.
Whistle blower program whatever.
Don’t be afraid to go over their head either.
Wouldn’t be the first POI who is clueless about what is going on.
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