Wheels Up Operators (Gama, DPJ, TMC)
10-16-2022, 08:26 PM
#882
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,920
On Facebook today WU was advertising for retired airline pilots. First time I've seen them doing that. I flew with a few retired pilots at NetJets, most were fine but quite a few didn't hang around after the reality of having to stock, clean, load bags, etc. hit them.
10-17-2022, 08:23 AM
#883
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 918
I would recommend staying a year..
Originally Posted by KaiGywer
How long is said training contract?
With no dog in this fight since I don’t work there (but have a ton of friends who do), as a Recruiter, I would recommend that you stay at least 1 year. When a prospective employer (including Legacies) see your application and see that you were at a company for less than a year, several red flags pop up: Were there training issues, IOE issues, HR issues, etc. Also, they can see that you came on, got the type rating (and possibly your ATP) through Wheels Up, and bounced on them in less than a year. It doesn’t look good.
Also, most pilots are leaving the Regional meat grinder to come to WUP, not the other way around. Having talked to my Regional friends who joined our Company say that they would never go back, even with the enhanced pay because, unless you live in base (and the base doesn’t close), it’s still a brutal Regional lifestyle..
I would definitely research your training contract and stay for as long as you can stand it.. If you do leave in less than a year, be prepared to answer the tough questions in the interview.. Saying that you left a place like WUP because “it was a dumpster fire” or something like that probably won’t fly as there are now WUP pilots at every Legacy , LCC, J9, etc., so they are obviously aware of the quality of pilot and training that WUP produces. I am not defending training contracts, but they are an unfortunate reality in the charter sector and you should do some deep research before you break one for integrity purposes.
Good Luck…
10-17-2022, 03:52 PM
#884
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by b727drvr
hey kai,
with no dog in this fight since i don’t work there (but have a ton of friends who do), as a recruiter, i would recommend that you stay at least 1 year. When a prospective employer (including legacies) see your application and see that you were at a company for less than a year, several red flags pop up: Were there training issues, ioe issues, hr issues, etc. Also, they can see that you came on, got the type rating (and possibly your atp) through wheels up, and bounced on them in less than a year. It doesn’t look good.
Also, most pilots are leaving the regional meat grinder to come to wup, not the other way around. Having talked to my regional friends who joined our company say that they would never go back, even with the enhanced pay because, unless you live in base (and the base doesn’t close), it’s still a brutal regional lifestyle..
I would definitely research your training contract and stay for as long as you can stand it.. If you do leave in less than a year, be prepared to answer the tough questions in the interview.. Saying that you left a place like wup because “it was a dumpster fire” or something like that probably won’t fly as there are now wup pilots at every legacy , lcc, j9, etc., so they are obviously aware of the quality of pilot and training that wup produces. I am not defending training contracts, but they are an unfortunate reality in the charter sector and you should do some deep research before you break one for integrity purposes.
Good luck…
with no dog in this fight since i don’t work there (but have a ton of friends who do), as a recruiter, i would recommend that you stay at least 1 year. When a prospective employer (including legacies) see your application and see that you were at a company for less than a year, several red flags pop up: Were there training issues, ioe issues, hr issues, etc. Also, they can see that you came on, got the type rating (and possibly your atp) through wheels up, and bounced on them in less than a year. It doesn’t look good.
Also, most pilots are leaving the regional meat grinder to come to wup, not the other way around. Having talked to my regional friends who joined our company say that they would never go back, even with the enhanced pay because, unless you live in base (and the base doesn’t close), it’s still a brutal regional lifestyle..
I would definitely research your training contract and stay for as long as you can stand it.. If you do leave in less than a year, be prepared to answer the tough questions in the interview.. Saying that you left a place like wup because “it was a dumpster fire” or something like that probably won’t fly as there are now wup pilots at every legacy , lcc, j9, etc., so they are obviously aware of the quality of pilot and training that wup produces. I am not defending training contracts, but they are an unfortunate reality in the charter sector and you should do some deep research before you break one for integrity purposes.
Good luck…
well said!!!!
10-19-2022, 07:23 PM
#885
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,920
WU Hocking their jets
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...2&utm_campaign
They are mortgaging their primary owned aircraft to raise $259M. Big rises in revenue but also big increases in losses, $180M for the 1st half of the year. Stock has dropped 90% since going public in July 2021.
WU is having to pay 12% interest for 7 years on the mortgaged jets.
I'd be careful about going to work there unless you're an age 65 retired airline type. I think I already posted about seeing WU ads on Facebook targeting retired pilots.
They are mortgaging their primary owned aircraft to raise $259M. Big rises in revenue but also big increases in losses, $180M for the 1st half of the year. Stock has dropped 90% since going public in July 2021.
WU is having to pay 12% interest for 7 years on the mortgaged jets.
I'd be careful about going to work there unless you're an age 65 retired airline type. I think I already posted about seeing WU ads on Facebook targeting retired pilots.
10-19-2022, 07:52 PM
#886
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by B727DRVR
Hey Kai,
With no dog in this fight since I don’t work there (but have a ton of friends who do), as a Recruiter, I would recommend that you stay at least 1 year. When a prospective employer (including Legacies) see your application and see that you were at a company for less than a year, several red flags pop up: Were there training issues, IOE issues, HR issues, etc. Also, they can see that you came on, got the type rating (and possibly your ATP) through Wheels Up, and bounced on them in less than a year. It doesn’t look good.
Also, most pilots are leaving the Regional meat grinder to come to WUP, not the other way around. Having talked to my Regional friends who joined our Company say that they would never go back, even with the enhanced pay because, unless you live in base (and the base doesn’t close), it’s still a brutal Regional lifestyle..
I would definitely research your training contract and stay for as long as you can stand it.. If you do leave in less than a year, be prepared to answer the tough questions in the interview.. Saying that you left a place like WUP because “it was a dumpster fire” or something like that probably won’t fly as there are now WUP pilots at every Legacy , LCC, J9, etc., so they are obviously aware of the quality of pilot and training that WUP produces. I am not defending training contracts, but they are an unfortunate reality in the charter sector and you should do some deep research before you break one for integrity purposes.
Good Luck…
With no dog in this fight since I don’t work there (but have a ton of friends who do), as a Recruiter, I would recommend that you stay at least 1 year. When a prospective employer (including Legacies) see your application and see that you were at a company for less than a year, several red flags pop up: Were there training issues, IOE issues, HR issues, etc. Also, they can see that you came on, got the type rating (and possibly your ATP) through Wheels Up, and bounced on them in less than a year. It doesn’t look good.
Also, most pilots are leaving the Regional meat grinder to come to WUP, not the other way around. Having talked to my Regional friends who joined our Company say that they would never go back, even with the enhanced pay because, unless you live in base (and the base doesn’t close), it’s still a brutal Regional lifestyle..
I would definitely research your training contract and stay for as long as you can stand it.. If you do leave in less than a year, be prepared to answer the tough questions in the interview.. Saying that you left a place like WUP because “it was a dumpster fire” or something like that probably won’t fly as there are now WUP pilots at every Legacy , LCC, J9, etc., so they are obviously aware of the quality of pilot and training that WUP produces. I am not defending training contracts, but they are an unfortunate reality in the charter sector and you should do some deep research before you break one for integrity purposes.
Good Luck…
10-21-2022, 05:59 AM
#887
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by AirBear
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...2&utm_campaign
They are mortgaging their primary owned aircraft to raise $259M. Big rises in revenue but also big increases in losses, $180M for the 1st half of the year. Stock has dropped 90% since going public in July 2021.
WU is having to pay 12% interest for 7 years on the mortgaged jets.
I'd be careful about going to work there unless you're an age 65 retired airline type. I think I already posted about seeing WU ads on Facebook targeting retired pilots.
They are mortgaging their primary owned aircraft to raise $259M. Big rises in revenue but also big increases in losses, $180M for the 1st half of the year. Stock has dropped 90% since going public in July 2021.
WU is having to pay 12% interest for 7 years on the mortgaged jets.
I'd be careful about going to work there unless you're an age 65 retired airline type. I think I already posted about seeing WU ads on Facebook targeting retired pilots.
Up Raise $259 Million In Asset-Backed Debt
I heard that this debt facility was inbound, a few days ago. Of the 134 WUP-owned aircraft that have been used as collateral, 72 are King Air 350i's that are no longer as popular among WUP members, at least according to Wheels Up. Is using them as loan collateral the best way to use these aircraft? Wouldn't a controlled sale raise more cash?
On top of at least $100 million in asset value loss, since the King Air 350i's were purchased, this $259 million credit line carries an interest rate of 12%, or $230,000 per annum for each wholly-owned aircraft in the WUP fleet. Putting this into perspective, WUP have lost $180 million, year-to-date and will now need to generate a further $30 million, each year, just to cover their interest expenses.
During NBAA WUP have announced that they will continue to make acquisitions in addition to achieving breakeven by 2024. Two recent acquisitions, Alante Air and Air Partner, consumed $124.5 million. At the risk of appearing skeptical (I am, by the way) I simply cannot see how this combination of high-cost acquisitions and heavy losses can be converted into profitability in just two years.
More widely, I am seeing a steady flow of announcements about new aircraft purchases and SPAC's, all of which suggest that the charter market is robust enough to absorb dozens of brand new aircraft and that these companies are, therefore, worthy of being handed billions in additional capital. Having been directly involved with aircraft charter and fractional operations, for close to forty years, I have never seen evidence that these markets can sustain brand new, wholly-owned, aircraft or the astonishing levels of debt these providers are accumulating...
I look forward to seeing earnings updates for Wheels Up, every quarter. Sadly, I expect to see one or more of these branded charter providers go spectacularly bust, when the charter market, or the wider economy, bites back.
10-24-2022, 06:56 AM
#888
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by FarNorthPilot
Anyone know how much "in base" flying you do? or is like like days 1&8 are usually commuting days?
10-24-2022, 08:24 AM
#889
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 918
It’s home based..
Originally Posted by ORD567
I would love to know the answer to this too... Is it all out of base flying? Or do you get to come back to base for some nights during the rotation? Trying to understand if it might be reasonable to move to base.
I don’t work there, but it is home based flying, i.e., they positive space you to where the airplane is. Aside from moving to BDR, moving to “base” wouldn’t make any sense because that is the whole advantage of flying for WUP and it’s competitors is that you can live ANYWHERE near commercial airline service. If you are looking for a WUP Managed-type job where you fly one aircraft and return to base, that is on a separate thread.
10-24-2022, 08:55 AM
#890
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by B727DRVR
Hey ORD,
I don’t work there, but it is home based flying, i.e., they positive space you to where the airplane is. Aside from moving to BDR, moving to “base” wouldn’t make any sense because that is the whole advantage of flying for WUP and it’s competitors is that you can live ANYWHERE near commercial airline service. If you are looking for a WUP Managed-type job where you fly one aircraft and return to base, that is on a separate thread.
I don’t work there, but it is home based flying, i.e., they positive space you to where the airplane is. Aside from moving to BDR, moving to “base” wouldn’t make any sense because that is the whole advantage of flying for WUP and it’s competitors is that you can live ANYWHERE near commercial airline service. If you are looking for a WUP Managed-type job where you fly one aircraft and return to base, that is on a separate thread.
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