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-   -   Ameriflight (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/part-135/17324-ameriflight.html)

E170Driver 02-04-2009 07:26 AM

Haha yeah i think there is a club just about anywhere there is an open pilot job. Its funny how this job can beat you down and we just keep coming back.

SkyStormer6 02-04-2009 09:48 AM

Just want to clear a few things up since I kinda got a woopin' after my last post. I was asking about the "pay to play" thing because I thought I read about ameriflight doing some kind of program like that and just wanted more details. I understand that these programs are frowned upon, and most likely would never do one myself. Just trying to do some research.

And someone questioned why I was flying single pilot IFR in a 310. I'm doing it part 91. Since I have my multi engine and instrument rating I believe this is legal.

Sorry again for stirring the pot about paying to fly. I'm broke anyway so this wouldn't be an option for me

UCLAbruins 02-04-2009 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by SkyStormer6 (Post 552065)
I understand that these programs are frowned upon, and most likely would never do one myself. Just trying to do some research.

Sorry again for stirring the pot about paying to fly. I'm broke anyway so this wouldn't be an option for me

No worries

But yes sir, that's a very sensitive issue. Its frowned upon because we're desperately trying to save our profesion (salary wise). So when young guys in need of some multi or turbine time offer to fly for free or even pay to get a job, well its like taking one step forward, two steps back.... The other thing is when a single guy offers to fly for free, then the guy after him has a family and he needs to get paid, but now can't because his predecesor did it for free. You screw yourself out of pay, and you screw the guy who takes your place when you leave.

I'm not talking about you at all, just letting you know why its a very sensitive issue.

own nav 02-04-2009 11:14 AM


Originally Posted by UCLAbruins (Post 552083)
No worries

But yes sir, that's a very sensitive issue. Its frowned upon because we're desperately trying to save our profesion (salary wise). So when young guys in need of some multi or turbine time offer to fly for free or even pay to get a job, well its like taking one step forward, two steps back.... The other thing is when a single guy offers to fly for free, then the guy after him has a family and he needs to get paid, but now can't because his predecesor did it for free. You screw yourself out of pay, and you screw the guy who takes your place when you leave.

I'm not talking about you at all, just letting you know why its a very sensitive issue.

Again, this applies to Gulfstream, Vision and other airlines where you pay for an actual job, and yes, I agree, these are unethical arrangements.

If no one pays for the AMF FO program, on the other hand, we fly single pilot without them. No one is losing their jobs because of this program. The seat just goes empty.

I don't mean to bash anyone, but I've seen these anti-PFT arguments go overboard to the point of it becoming a stereotypical witch hunt.

Believe me, I agree with you on several points. No one's wallet should determine their career sucess. I just don't think AMFs program deserves to be lumped in with the controversy.

And here's another thing, don't tell me that CFI's aren't guilty of PFTing. They paid for their training, and often work for the very place they paid. In fact, when I went to school, my school threatened that if we didn't do all our certs and ratings with them, they wouldn't hire us. They were good to their word, and I had to instruct elsewhere. Yet no one is "at their door with pitchforks" or bashing them on internet forums.

CircleK 02-04-2009 11:23 AM

"Vision and other airlines where you pay for an actual job, and yes, I agree, these are unethical arrangements."

Just a quick FYI. Vision is no longer pay to play. The April 25th 2008 class was paid 18.00 per flight hour with an 80 hour Gaurantee. (Do228) (of course the whole class is furloughed right now....crossing my fingers for a call back soon)

own nav 02-04-2009 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by CircleK (Post 552134)
"Vision and other airlines where you pay for an actual job, and yes, I agree, these are unethical arrangements."

Just a quick FYI. Vision is no longer pay to play. The April 25th 2008 class was paid 18.00 per flight hour with an 80 hour Gaurantee. (Do228) (of course the whole class is furloughed right now....crossing my fingers for a call back soon)

I'm not convinced that they've "changed their ways." Some airlines were hiring 300 hour pilots up until that point, it was a market condition, not a change of heart. If they go the next few years without returning to their previous ways, I'll be glad to be proven wrong.

skatergeek 02-04-2009 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by SkyStormer6 (Post 552065)

And someone questioned why I was flying single pilot IFR in a 310. I'm doing it part 91. Since I have my multi engine and instrument rating I believe this is legal.

That's awesome. Ya after I posted it I thought of that sorry.


Originally Posted by own nav (Post 552126)

If no one pays for the AMF FO program, on the other hand, we fly single pilot without them. No one is losing their jobs because of this program. The seat just goes empty.

I had no idea Amflight had a FO program.

SkyStormer6 02-04-2009 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by skatergeek (Post 552155)
I had no idea Amflight had a FO program.

That's the whole reason why I posted in the first place. Just wondering if there is any kind of FO program that they use to hire those that are very close to 135 mins. Something along the lines of AirNets SIC program (for the 135 hourly challenged individuals). If any current or former employees could shed some light on this subject that would be awesome. Do you actually pay to build time in the right seat or is it an unpaid internship. I might be able to stomach not being paid for a month or two if it meant a guaranteed job after I hit 1200.

Lemme have it...

E170Driver 02-04-2009 05:39 PM

WOW.... I thought it was bad when I was working for Republic and was only pulling down 1100 a month after tax... but to work for FREE!?!?! You say you’re flying right now. Why not just stay there a bit until you have the time? Being a pilot used to be a respectable career... I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
I guess the only saving grace would be what own_nav said “If no one pays for the AMF FO program, on the other hand, we fly single pilot without them. No one is losing their jobs because of this program. The seat just goes empty.” So its either single pilot or pilot with free automatic gear swinger. :-)

SkyStormer6 02-04-2009 05:58 PM

I'm not trying to lower any standards. For myself or anyone else. Just wanted to know if a brief internship as an FO at AMF might lead to a full time position. I am flying right now, not the greatest job in the world but it's better than unemployment. However, if I had to sacrifice a month or two without pay in order to secure a long term position with Ameriflight, and as own nav stated I wouldnt be causing someone else to lose their job, you bet I'd do it in a heartbeat. The short term sacrifice would be well worth it, plus I'm not hurting anyone else. It also helps that my ol' lady makes enough for both of us. In the end though it probably won't matter, I'll hit the 135 mins in a few months with my current job and then be able to apply at other companies as well.


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