AboveAndBeyond

For the experience that I had, I thought the wages at AMF were fair. They trained me, and gave me a type rating. After a year and a half, I was a much better pilot and I thought I deserved more than they were paying me. I took the job at AMF, worked diligently, and then went to another company. I did not threaten to blackmail the company into paying me more by starting a union, or striking, or taxiing slowly, or calling in sick. I was honorable, and professional. I left, and went and found a new job that paid me what I felt that I deserved.

It is really that simple. I know some people on here don't understand, and that is fine. It is just appalling to me that you expect a company to live up to their word, and you are not living up to yours. If I hire a contractor to build an addition on to my house, and he gives me a contract saying that I own him $20,000 - I expect to pay him $20,000. If he comes back to me later and says that he is now too good to work for $20,000, and he needs me to pay him $40,000, or he refuses to finish the job, that is extortion and fraud.

I personally don't see a difference. You may disagree. That is fine.

brianb

Your self worth is appalling.

B727DRVR

Above,

So I guess you still think that everyone that got a job at UPS, FDX, Netjets, Southwest, etc. are all unprofessional and dishonorable because they accepted a job at substandard pay and then decided that they want more?!? And all the millions of American workers that accepted a job under deplorable conditions in the early 1900's and then fought to make things better and safer by starting a union were all dishonorable?!?! News Flash, Above: There were NO other jobs to go to then.... Robber Barons ran Bangladesh-like factories that had locked fire escapes, indentured servitude, and children chained to their sewing machines. But they were unprofessional and dishonorable according to you because they decided to stay and make it a better place to work, AND a better country to live in... Right? According to you, they could have just left for another firetrap factory to get locked into.

And all our forefathers in aviation who were flying under deplorable and unsafe conditions in the early years of aviation (Fly it broken or you're fired...), were dishonorable for starting a union that has help make American aviation the safest on the planet?!?

This is what you are saying, but is it what you really mean? If so, it's incredibly obtuse.

AboveAndBeyond

If you are saying that the conditions at TMC are as bad as the sweatshops in Indonesia, or as bad as the coal mines during the late 1800's, then absolutely they should strike and form a union. Without a doubt. I will be a Molly McGuire stand with them.

If it is a bunch of whiny pilots that want $50,000 a year instead of $45,000, then I think that they insult the premise of what a union is supposed to be. They are a slap in the face to all of those that fought for workers rights.

Tell me, which group are they? Is TMC violating their rights? Are they breaking duty time regulations, and flying broken airplanes? Are they chained to their yolks and not fed if they don't block 14 hours in a day? Are their families threatened if they quit and go to another job? If so, then good for them - they should form a union. On the other hand, do they just want a raise, and not to have to go to training on days off?

Are they being forced to work there? Is there indentured servitude involved? Is there a monopoly on jobs, and a company store that holds the deed to their house? Or could they just as easily feed their family in one of 1,000 other jobs - either in this industry or out of it?

The early airlines did it in the interest of passenger safety. That is admirable. Is there an overwhelming safety issue? Are their airplanes falling out of the sky? Please let me know so I can wear a helmet when walking down the street.

The people that need protecting are the factory workers in some parts of the world. The miners in Africa. Entitled pilots forming a union in oder to drive a Mercedes instead of a Honda is an insult to workers that need help but are not able to get it.

Panzon

Moderators: could you break this thread in two, allowing the current debate about wages to continue separately, and allowing the original thread to revert to news and information about TMC?

B727DRVR

Above,

You STILL did not answer my question. In your eyes, are all the Southwest, Netjets, UPS, Fedex, Jet Blue, Virgin America, etc. pilots that accepted a job at substandard wages, and then fought to make things better unprofessional and dishonorable?!!?

The TMC pilots are doing the same thing that all the above did to improve their lot in life... Please tell me how the TMC pilots are any different than all their brother and sister aviators mentioned above.

B727DRVR

Good point, Panzon.

I will probably start a thread to congratulate the TMC Pilots for getting their cards in and certified, and to wish them good luck on their vote.

Maybe this thread could be TMC Hiring Info... otherwise there would be no reason not to post any kind of information, union or otherwise, on this thread.

Grundle

The Pro-rate is new. Wonder if they are having a hard time enforcing the old NON-prorated contracts? Must mean a healthy amount of first years are breaking it.

I would seriously consider XO-
8/6 option vs 15/13
55K salary vs 42.5K (paid at a daily rate- no guarantee)
1 week Paid vacation vs 3 unpaid personal days
90.00/day food expense vs 40.00 per diem (no increase for Canada)
Normal amount of sick days a year vs 2 (Does not roll over)
Basic Health coverage at 90.00 / mo vs 200.00
NO training on days off vs Mandatory training on days off (Recurrent training is 8 off in a 43 day span)

Seems obvious if you are lucky enough to choose.

Congrats on the job offer and good luck in your decision.

Timmer

I know a few guys who left TMC for XO and they like XO more and are happy with the move.

IHveTheControls

For those interested, there is a new TMC thread in the UNION Talk section.