PeteyT

If you're talking about my post, you didn't read the whole thing. It's pretty clear I wasn't disparaging a pay increase.

There's more to job satisfaction and the effect on family life than money. Sure, more money is better than less money, but if the only thing that changes is that our pay rates get brought up to the other airlines, well, we're still are a garbage airline in nearly every other way but pay. We're still behind the others in schedule, training, and everything else.

But on the topic of pay, let's say we get the exact same hourly rates as PSA. We're still earning less than Republic, Endeavor, and PSA for the amount of days we work. They're all crediting more pay per day than we are.

So yea, money is a nice consolation prize, but this airline has a lot of work to do. Even if it matches PSA rates, it's still a bargain bin airline until they address a lot of other QoL issues.

MantisToboggan

I would bet that 99% of people would rather more time at home (read: daytrips) than four day trips with higher credit. Which seems like what you’re arguing.

If I’m gonna be away for four days, yeah fly me. But I’d rather, ya know, not be away four days haha

60av8tor

Yeah I was. I feel you’re frustration - you seem to have had it since the beginning last year. I get it, I do. What I don’t get is that we were never the shiny thing - not like you were ever gonna have End pay, Rep lines, or PSA SAP at Piedmont. Tons of guys slugged it out for years here and elsewhere under much, much worse conditions. This doesn’t mean we don’t strive to be the best we can and improve things for ourselves and fellow coworkers, but when everything out of your mouth is garbage bin, dumpster airline, etc., it just seems a little rude to me to others that went before us - in way worse conditions at times, for much less pay. I knew what I was getting and chose to accept it because it fit me. When it does not, I’ll exit. You have the same choice. Good luck.

MantisToboggan

My starting pay was in the $20s... permission to call it a dumpster fire sir?


Yeah many others have had it MUCH worse than me. By a lot. But I doubt any of those guys who were furloughed/abused endlessly would ever argue what you’re saying.... and I’ve certainly never had any of them call me on it. Feel free to do so Billyho, if you still lurk these parts

“We were bad when you came here, so stop complaining” is essentially what I’m getting from you. No?

PeteyT

This is my conduit for expressing my frustrations, because doing so on the line doesn't breed a positive work experience for anyone involved. It makes for a better trip if you pretend, for four days, that this airline isn't a runt.

I can get on board with your sentiment when the cockpit door is shut. Outside of that, though, I see absolutely no reason for unwarranted optimism. This airline has almost nothing to offer above a flow. Besides that, it's substandard in nearly every other way. Outside of the cockpit, there's no reason hide that with blind optimism.

I appreciate what that pilots before us have done to try to improve it. It would be worse without their efforts, but I'm not going to pretend it's better than it is. I'm not going to lie about it. I'm not a recruiter.

60av8tor

Have at it. I’m not denying any of it or white washing the QOL. Specifically I was talking to PeteyT. I’m absolutely not saying that one doesn’t have a right to complain - regardless of anything. My question just out of curiousity - again for him - was what made him come here in the first place? That’s it. Not making judgements. Some handle things better than others - good, bad, and indifferent. I don’t think we were astronomically better (or worse) when he decided to come here, so I’m just curios why come here at all in the first place?

Not arguing, right, wrong, whatever. Just curious.

60av8tor

I respect your approach - truly do. I’m certainly not a cheer leader - would recommend to no one to come here at the moment considering other options. And I don’t have much optimism other than 11 days and occasionally 3 days between trips. As I posted above in response to Mantis, I was just curious what got you here in the first place? I don’t think we had a lot to offer at the time you hired on...? Could be wrong.

Lahey

there was a lot more promise 3-4 years ago.

60av8tor

I understand - partly why I’m here. I believe the gent I was referring to got here a year ish ago. All the PDT months blend together but I’m pretty sure the fire was fairly strong at that time. I dunno...

PeteyT

The long answer is that I didn't come to Piedmont via referral. I didn't know anyone at the company, besides the recruiters. I had nobody to talk to or ask questions. I trusted the recruiters and the online marketing more than I should have. I was willing to make some sacrifices for a quick flow and some other great things the recruiters harped on, most of which turned out to be misleading or simply wrong. I honestly don't know if they deceive intentionally, but they were giving out a lot of bad information.

It's not until you get in, actually get your hands on the contract, see what the final awards look like, talk to pilots, and fly the line that you get the real story. At that point I had already turned down offers from other airlines. I considered leaving anyways, but I didn't want to fall prey to "the grass is always greener" and end up fooled again, but then even lower on a seniority list.

You learn a lot after you get here. Like how often they **** up your pay, and how the company can let pay adjustments get months behind. How they don't pay upgrades CA pay until they're off OE, while DECs get it from day one. How they interpret certain pieces of the contract. How poorly training is run (not just the training delay itself, but how it's managed all together.) How many people in training have never flown the airplane. The interface. Modified min day (the sure didn't mentioned the "modified" part in the recruiting diatribe.) How bad the schedules are. How it takes typically two and a half years to become a line-qualified Captain for those guys that come in with no 121 experience. How often your life gets ****ed around with with displacements, extensions, and junior mans. How little respect the company has for a pilot's time. They way they question fatigue calls, sick calls, and captain's decisions. How often the staff and management **** up even the most simple of tasks.

Now that I know Piedmont, it's crystal clear that Piedmont doesn't deserve another pilot or another airplane until they get their **** together. I have never worked for a company or flight department that operates so poorly, in or out of aviation. I'm not in a position to determine where fault lies, whether it's the flight department staff/management, company staff/management, or AAG. (I imagine it's a combination of all three.) But this place is a joke, and I'm not willing to sugar coat it.

On top of how poorly this place operates, there's also the fact that our contract, our pay, and schedules are all below average.

So, I came to Piedmont because I was blind to a lot of things. I didn't find APC until after I was here and very ****ed off with what I was learning about the organization.