You are a DEC and that is not representative of most street FO’s experiences.

That’s not my class. At most there were only 2 DEC’s in that class. I was told the ENTIRE class is in sims now not just the DEC’s.

June 25 systems class has people starting sims this week.

And file it under the "believe it when you see it" category, but the July 9 systems class were told to expect a 1 week wait. That's awfully optimistic, even by PDT standards, but with the dramatic reduction in wait time for the most recent two classes, I guess it could be possible.

I got an email after only 3+ weeks stating I’d be starting OE “in August”, and to send military dates, etc if I had them...

That seems to be only for direct entry captains. The fo’s in systems this past month I talked to were told 4-8 weeks minimum

Not sure about FO’s but captain Even non direct entry seem to be waiting only a few weeks and decreasing.

The more the TA gets discussed the more ambiguity and holes are discovered. ALPA dues seem to be quite the waste at this point. Pilot market and they can’t even manage to get the language part correct.

I appreciate every second that the volunteers of the union have put into this. I realize it's a lot of work, and I realize that it might seem thankless. We don't get enough time off as it is, and you dedicated much of your time to trying to improve things for all of us. Thank you for that.

You were fighting a headwind in trying to negotiate with these people. It wasn't an easy task, and I doubt any of the dissenters could have done better themselves. Please don't think that the few vocal people attacking the NC represent all of us. They don't.

That being said:

WE NEED TO VOTE NO.

This TA is garbage. Add everything up, and it's not even clearly an improvement. The bullet points range from completely disadvantageous to the pilot group to very marginally beneficial. There are no big gains.

In whole, this new contract benefits the company more than it benefits us. In certain contexts, that would be fine, but considering that (1) it's a pilot's market right now, finally, and (2) the existing contract is wrought with bad deals and bad language, the new agreement should have given us a clear and large gain. Any concessions should have been just what the airline MUST HAVE to continue to operate in light of improved work rules.

We're reminded on a daily basis that the company will abuse every letter of a contract that they can. When you look at this new language through that lens, you'll see that this TA does far more to help the company than it does to help recover some semblance of QoL.

No f'in thank you.

Guys and girls, vote no on this. Focus your energy towards moving on to bigger and better things. Don't wait for the flow if it's not absolutely necessary. Tell your friends to avoid PDT until management decides they'd rather just run the airline well than perpetuate a complete sh*t-show, one that only survives because the pilot group is under-compensated and has failed to protect itself in previous negotiations.

There's no diamond in the rough of this new TA. Don't be fooled just because they threw some glitter on it.

I had about a 4 week wait between systems and sims. Although now I have at least a 5 day break before my next sim. Got to love how they’re slowing my career down!

Im sure your carrier of choice is biting their nails in eager anticipation of your application. I would be ****ed too.

Just 4 weeks? My wait was over 3 months....

It’s decreasing. Pretty quick it seems.

Timing certainly is everything.

It’s not that, but when in takes months and months to get through training here, all that time without flying definitely hurts you. More time to upgrade, less competitive for other airliners, etc. Thanks for your sarcastic comment though

You’re welcome. Anytime

My buddy who got hired on with Delta in his sixth month at Piedmont (after Indoc, a five month wait, ground school, while awaiting sims) would disagree...

If they want you, they want you regardless of a training delay at a regional.

Having 8-9 months less experience can affect if they want you.

Is your buddy like me with 2100 TT and 0 TPIC? Was he a military guy who came here to get current? Or was he from another regional with several thousand hours and upgraded right away here? I’m doing the job fairs, updating the app, just got the degree done, etc. Still need more hours before I get a call though. But you guys know everything it seems.

[QUOTE=123494;2648834]Is your buddy like me with 2100 TT and 0 TPIC? Was he a military guy who came here to get current? Or was he from another regional with several thousand hours and upgraded right away here? I’m doing the job fairs, updating the app, just got the degree done, etc. Still need more hours before I get a call though. But you guys know everything it seems.[/QUOTE

Your on the right path. Best laid plans man....

2500 part 121 SIC, 0TPIC, male, non military non diversity background FO. Two job fairs...

When’s the voting date end and when are y’all expected to know the result?

They haven’t started road showing so, I’d imagine one month after the end of the show we will have a vote... October?

The vote will be shortly.. people want their 60 cent raise.

Road show... cut me a break and let us vote it down already.

Our FO rep is out here selling this thing like he's getting paid to do it. Pretty sure that guy is on the take from management.

Pay raise, better interface rules, union involvement in schedule building, an arguably better commuter policy for a one hour increase in extension...

I think this will be closer than you think.

Interface language is the almost there same.. they had CI days in Allegheny... its the same thing..

The raise for 75 percent of the current captains on the seniority list is pennies..

One hour of extension is a huge deal here already. Captain's are abused..

The scheduling committee language is useless as the company can refuse and cancel the group at anytime.

Notification of trip changes by email!?!?

250 dollars as a reimbursement for hotels... hahaha.

We shouldn't be giving up one concession.

In fairness, the notification of trip changes by email pertains only to displacements, and then the company and union have to agree on this at a later date if they decide to.

The rest is personal preference at this point. I feel like spreading half truths doesn’t benefit the pilot group.

Extensions are in my opinion the only real concession. The interface language is huge, the PCSC language is big especially if you talk to the scheduling committee guys, the pay raise is whatever, and the commuter policy is a trade off. I don’t think $250 is a lot on bad months but on good months it could be an extra hotel or two.

ROFLMAO

Thanks for the laugh.

The worst part about this company is the atrocious QOL. Why budge an inch on anything that makes it worse?

No confidence in what anyone in the union says except BL. I can read. It ain't good.

If you vote yes, you're on the companies side. You should probably join the union at this rate, I think you'd fit in well.

Well, conversely, why vote no if it increases the QOL? The few outspoken people are so outraged they didn’t get Endeavor rates, a trip and duty rig, 15 days off, ETC. Unfortunately you can only bargain for things you have the leverage to get - we have none.

Voting no is just as good as keeping things the same. It doesn’t mean we will get more. In fact, if the economy takes a **** and we’re still the lowest paid guys in the industry due to a no vote we probably will have even less leverage in 2021 which is the next midterm negotiation.

Personally, the 5 hour extension is not a deal breaker. I understand why the company wanted it since we fly longer legs with the jet and personally it doesn’t impact me in the least since I’ve only been extended maybe... 2 times?

Whatever boys, vote how you want. It’s a Yes for me and I don’t really care what APC or Facebook has to say about it. I want schedule transparency and for me the trade off of 5 hour extensions / junior man cap is worth it.

It doesn't make our quality of life any better. Net loss = worse QOL. Pretty simple.

Voting no is keeping things how they are. 100%. I have no inkling of hope the company would come back in good faith. Good faith isn't in their vocabulary.

We need dramatic change at this place. Here's the Mantis plan for growing a spine (that part's for you, NewGuy) and forcing change:

1.) VOTE NO. Send a message that you are tired of this crap. Pennies will not suffice. We will not make a single concession because this is our market. They need us. They run this place about as inefficiently as possible. That is not our problem, and we will not have that burden placed on us (think any of our problems related to crew shortage and how it all stems from their inability to train pilots).

2.) Recall several people in the union. Start at the very top. Stop selling us on something that is beneath us. We get you were swimming upstream, and that this TA wasn't going to be spectacular. Thanks for your time and effort, but the TA isn't good enough. Stop selling it like it is. Repeat after me: "we tried as hard as we could to get as many wins for the pilot group as possible. We were against the odds, and the company wouldn't budge on much. Vote how you will". You aren't a salesman.

3.) Vote of No Confidence: Do any of you have any confidence in managements ability to run this place? Have you ever? I sure haven't. Again, this sends a message more than anything else. We're done with the status quo.

All of this is highly public, and gets a lot of attention. The way to make this place hurt is to stop filling classes. Imagine looking at Piedmont as a prospective pilot, and seeing that the pilots are ousting the weak in the union, voting down the crumbs the company is offering us, and telling management we have had enough, and don't believe they can run this place. Not only that, but it would turn heads at AA. Oh yeah, and our flow is probably north of 8 years now. Let's make that fact very well known.

It's at least a start.

The pay raise is so little. It's not going to make much of a difference in future negotiations. This TA is all about work rules.

The bigger problem is not that your two extensions might have been up to an hour longer. The big problem is that the extensions can be an hour long AND you will susceptible to being extended more often. There are simply more turns that fit in the five hour window than fit in the four hour window.

Your statement that "it doesn’t impact me in the least since I’ve only been extended maybe... 2 times?" is a very short-sighted way to approach this topic, because you can expect more AND longer extensions.

Consider also that this language lets them conserve the JM stamps for longer, full-day JMs, where those would have been used up on the turns that fall in that 4-5 hour window.

The extra hour of extensions is a significant step backwards.

Just so you know, your struggles are being seen on the outside.
2 years ago, PDT was my nr#1 Regional to go to. Now that I have my hours, I didn't even apply.

It saddens me to hear this, because I wish we were a more desirable place to be. I wish we, as the pilot group, were able to get more accomplished in negotiations and have this be the go-to regional.

However, that's not the case. The truth is that the pilots are frustrated, are paid less than our peers, and have some of the worst work rules in the industry; the flight attendants are on food stamps and don't get the respect they deserve; the training department is frustrated (and a total **** show still); and the administrative personnel are frustrated and leaving the company.

Sorry we haven't done better, but you are wise to to look elsewhere. Good luck wherever you go.

If you're a captain here you will rarely work your schedule. You will be extended a lot on go home day to fly an abe, mdt, flo turn.. or this winner, fly a plane to mdt and taxi back to phl.. you best believe that is going to be scheduled less than 5 hours.

Unfortunately we will be held hostage.

Except not really since classes and interviews are full...

....right.

Anyways, Voted with my feet! Peace out yall!

Don’t take too much notice, flysooner is just trying to justify to himself that he didn’t buy a polished turd rolled in glitter.

By the way all regionals are polished turds, except some also have pieces of corn in them too.

Curious... what concessions did Endeavor have in their new contract?

New York codomicile, 15 hour max duty for reserves