New TA is out.
 

What do you guys and girls think of it?

This girl says NO

Disappointed it even got sent out to the pilot group for a vote and the union is going to spend time and money on roadshows for it.

But if they didn’t send it ya’ll would have complained you wanted to see it anyway...lol

They could have sent out the list of requests what they went into negotiations with, and the list of stuff where the mandate/expectations were not met to explain their no vote.

But ya’ll STILL would have complained you had no say... so damned if they do damned if they don’t. Silly pilots... always tripping over the dollars to pick up the pennies

It would be good to see the value of the cost per pilot increase of the TA before a vote... pennies may be all there is with the concessions in extension language, displacement and trip swap denial language, line holders being put on reserve during carry over (with lodging at their expense) hotel cost reimbursement caps etc. in return for the ~2% pay increase for captains.

Folks are willing to keep an open mind... Written statements by every negotiating committee member outlining why they viewed it as a good deal, as well statements from all of the reps who voted to send it to TA along with the cost per pilot analysis for the unions initial asks at the start of negotiations with a side by side comparison of the cost value per pilot of the gains and the cost value per pilot of all the concessions should be a good starting point.

I asked one of the guys and they’re going to roadshow it next month.

Agreed.

Filler

Travolta Pants is probably the SBY Airport Manager.

Weak union, disappointed they even sent this out in the first place.

Recall.

Filler

Recall? Are you serious? These were only midterm negotiations. If there’s any recalling to be done it’s needs to be BF and PN.

Yes they do not represent the pilot group

I totally agree BF needs to be recalled. He is too much of a company man and is doing nothing at all for us as pilots. When was the last time he was line qualified? How does management allow this to happen?

I don't understand, are you arguing against me or....

I’m agreeing.... I know that’s hard to accept, but I am. Believe it or not pilots can come together on a few things. #BFout!

PN and BF are two old farts that should have been gone a long time ago. Guys like that are just trying to milk it all they can for their last few years and could care about the younger guys getting beat down day by day. We need some new faces in those spots. I’d like to see some new faces in the Training Department as well.

The whole training department is new. Or at least a lot of them are.

Nothing less than AAL CEO rates for my yes vote. Also, what kind of crap is only 12 days off? Should have been 20 days off minimum! God, these stupid negotiators!

We all had different expectations on this TA.

Yet you're the only one here mocking people with a different mindset than you rather than providing reasoning behind your thinking. Grow up.

Hey, did you see that?! It was the joke going right over your head!

The point behind my tongue in cheek remark is that, as pilots, I don’t think we’ll ever be happy. We could get paid infinite amounts of money and have every day off that we could ever want and we’d still complain about something.

The committee worked hard, got us a few good things, and gave up a few good things. I think that the extra money as captain would make me feel a bit better when getting extended or juniored. But that’s just me. I think it’s also important to realize that staffing is most definitely an issue now, but the training department IS catching up, AND we’re only slated for what, 57 planes total? Our hiring is slowly catching up to our orders which (at least in theory), would reduce the number of JMs.

Idk, I’m an idiot and don’t think gud sometimes. So take that for what it’s worth.

The joke went right over my head, yet you shot right back reversing your wrong. Hmmmm.

So you want to open up a big old loophole in the contract because it maybe won't be an issue when/if we stop taking jets? Don't think of these contract issues only in the light of how they affect just yourself. The repercussions of this vote will affect everyone who comes here until a new one is put in place.

Ever wonder why our contract is so bad? It's has so many holes it makes swiss cheese look solid.

Because people ignored loopholes thinking the company wouldn't take advantage of them when times got tough. Time's will get tough, probably tougher than now. And they will have you flying an extra turn at the end of every single four day if it's what it takes to avoid cancelling flights.

I made a joke. Your reply was not a joke. So I clarified my joke. I’m not seeing what you’re seeing, I guess?

I don’t understand this logic. Everyone here, and I mean EVERYONE, b*tches about how AWFUL the schedules are, how little time off they have, how much the company takes advantage of them, how little they get paid compared to everyone else, how they hate flying the jet, blah blah blah blah. This TA offers a SMALL opportunity to have a couple of those things improved. But it seems that the pilot group would rather have it be status quo, have the company say “oh well!” and then we wait until 2022 or whenever the contract is up. I don’t get it.

Look, in the end, I don’t want anyone to get screwed over by bad language. I’m undecided as of yet on my vote. Just trying to play devil’s advocate. If the pilot group truly feels slighted by this TA, let’s vote it down.

I wold attribute it to big picture mindset versus, well, small picture.

I would be amiss to say that this TA would not bring us some small improvements:

A pay raise for myself would obviously better than no pay raise. On the flip side of that coin, my FOs get nothing, and I am still paid at the lowest rate in the industry. That is insulting, and I am more than happy to stay at my current pay rate almost purely on principle.

The whole 12 days off deal is really no different than what we have now. They'll find a way to exploit the new language, probably by building five day pairings that go into the first day of the next month. Hello standby days. If you think they won't do that, look at what they do now. They will exploit this.

The company doesn't even pay you correctly for the flying you currently do. You expect them to give you your $250? Have fun with that. "There will be a streamlined process, we promise" HAHAHAHA

Trip efficiency..... BL has already been doing this. He's been doing more outside of negotiations than ANYTHING in this TA. Thanks BL, no thanks TA.

The best part about being an FO and the part I miss most was getting displaced. This is a huge loss for them.

5 hours for a JRMN, holy moly. That is a non-starter. Have fun flying an extra two legs on every day four. If you think they won't exploit you like that, well, you simply haven't been at PDT long enough. The repercussions of a 5 hour JRMN will linger at this place FOREVER. Don't do that to yourself, but most importantly don't do it to the future PDT pilots.

What are the new terms?

My pay raise after taxes still amount to about 1200 dollars after taxes it is about 700.. assuming i credit 1000 hours in a year...

I have been jrm capped for a month now.. i am sure to call them on their bs when they try extend me now on go home day. And i now say triple isn't enough.. Call a reserve and politely say goodbye.. both times they immediately called me back.. got a trade back day off pay protected and the triple. Than that day i dropped i agreed to work it out triple again..

I'm sorry but the 700 dollars isn't worth worrying every trip if I'm going home as planned.

10k extra pay is a different story.

I respectfully disagree here. Money is important to me and my family. And FO’s are paid close to what everyone else is, plus signing bonuses. So I’m not that concerned about them (in terms of pay).

As for the rest, solid points.

Any idea when the actual vote will happen?

Probably next month.. also those who vote will have to be decided apon. Our contact and fom have conflicting information about who is on probation.. so this would apply to you.

Yeah I’ve been curious how they’ll handle the probation language.

I know it's somewhat off-topic but does JK and MM still run the training department? I'm thinking of coming back to 121 and back to PDT from charter but no way Jose if those individuals still run the show in the TD.

The new TA also sounds a bit dreadful, does PDT ALPA even know how to talk in non-concessionary terms? I would have thought they would have learned some new tricks since I left years ago.

Shamefull!

It wasn't 12 days off. It was 50%* of the lines 12 days off, which we already do better than, and have for over a year. So not really a win there.

Negative.. they have really nothing to do with the training department. Or training department is very good right now. Most of the instructors are excellent and will go above and beyond.

Still.. there are only so many instructors, and so many sims available. And we lose critical members every month. A game of cat and mouse.

Training dept is not in any way catching up. Crew Planning will not release captains from the line to go to instructor training. Sims slots are going unused for lack of instructors. New hire FOs taking 9-11 months to get through OE. I flew with an FO this month who finished OE two or three weeks prior. He finished OE at the 10 month mark. FYI. I will say though that we do have some great instructors and they do a great job.

JK is an examiner here and the director of AQP from what I understand. New fleet captain has a really good reputation and is well liked. Training dept is being given limited resources to succeed as crew planning won’t release hired guys/girls to become instructors.

That being said.... do not come here. If you have a family and ever want to see them more than in passing, or value anything at all outside of flying 145s, or have any desire to maintain your sanity, then do not come here right now. This place is a cancer to QOL.

You will have no time off and no time with family. That is a fact. Ye’ be warned.

What kirk said.. I can no longer in good conscience recommend this place to anyone. For a brief. This place was actually turning around and becoming a nice place to work

Thanks guys!

Well, sure they're catching up. That guy was 10 months to get through OE. I'll be around 8... if I ever actually get there (finished LOE just shy of 7).

I'll put my money oon 9 months..

They are pushing many of the olds Roanoke people through.. once that happens things still get a bit better.

June 11th systems class started sims this week. So the gap between systems and sim is down to about 3-4 weeks.