Absolutely they can. It’s spot training and seat specific. Until the MV and LOE. Must have a qualified seat filler. Happens all the time. Ca/ca usually breeze through in the footprint. Fo/fo esp new 121 guys will end up w 15 sim usually. It’s about the Training. At AA I went through w a Fo new to 121.

Yeah probably so, especially since Envoy DEC’s are getting ORD now. Oh well.

Yup, I did both my 121 type ratings with fo/fo pairings.

I'm paired with a CA transitioning, so I don't see why they wouldn't push him through. The DEC apparently took a few sim slots so I'm sure that's part of the reason for our "break". I'm ready to work PDT! Just give me a chance!

im not the type of person to say I a toad a so, but you know what, I toad a so, I ********n A toada so.


Those people starting sims quickly....they will be in sims for a long, long time.

You can pair up two CA or FO trainees in the sim. You're only evaluated on the stuff you're supposed to know.

From what I was told by a buddy that was FO/FO in June, the FAA has stopped allowing FO/FO checkrides here. He and his partner got split up last min for LOE.

Perfect. Everyone else does it, but nah let’s find more ways to complicate things for Piedmont.

Pretty sure SkyWest gives seat subs for LOEs.

Yes during check rides at other places you have a seat sub, usually another instructor. However during all the non checking sims your paired up fo/fo or ca/ca depending on staffing needs.

Envoy gives a seat sub as well for the QLOE, usually another sim instructor.

When does the vote for your TA close?

30th of august

As an outsider, I encourage you to vote NO. There is no reason to give concessions in this environment. NONE!

well?

filler

Pilot group voted 'no' on it.

Good. Just know that your fellow wholly owned minions at MQ are behind you. We can work together to get a better deal for everyone (as long as everyone is on board and nobody takes concessions).

SOSO same ole same ole
 

When I was with Envoy “Back in the day”, we told Jerry to stick his concessions up his glASS. We refused concessions, told him to go ahead and shut us down, and over the course of the following year we lost 1000 pilots! We shrunk from 3000 to 2000. Unfortunately, AA’s regional flying was promised to another wholly-owned on the verge of going under and that company was now promising quick upgrades and our FO’s took the bait. By the end of the year, the problem Envoy had created for AA had been solved by farming out regional flying to many regionals thus setting up the version of whip-sawing witnessed by you today.

ALPA National was split between representing AA’s regional airplanes not only to Envoy but also to other ALPA regionals. So who do THEY represent??

Everyone is hiring. No one needs flow-through and no one needs a job at a carrier that flies for AA. Make it known to anyone looking for a pilot job.

And for that matter, no one needs to fly for a mAAjor airline that is run by someone who spends his life trying to devalue his employees. There’s other major airlines out there...
———————-
Part II (sorry...)

Get together with ALPA National and other regionals and try to come up with a global regional plan, after all costs are costs and if they’re all the same for everyone, what does it matter.

If you don’t here’s what you can expect...

- Bullet points
- Vote
- More bullet points
- More votes
- Agreement in principle
- Final language
- Final language doesn’t really add up to what union road show guy has been saying but Union guy is excited about final language
- Final language to you still seems vague and inconsistent from one paragraph to the next
- Union talks about how they were up ‘till two in the morning working out the details. “Yea, it ain’t perfect but Oh! this is sooo good..what a deal! Gotta pass dis here sum-biotch”
- Vote
- Pass
- Pilots complain company not honoring new contract
- Union guy says ”gooooly, that there sum-biotch (vp in charge of whatever) sat right there across the table from me and he looked me straight in the eye- this ‘un righ ‘cheer”
as he points to his dominate eye
“an he promised...” .
- You realize yer fushckrewed
- Same ‘ole shtuff...welcome to the Airlines, jr!

So any feedback for you guys as to what to expect next going forward?

The pilot group went into the vote knowing that a NO vote would not bring a restart to negotiations. It was a take it or leave it deal.

Expect an uptick in attrition as reality sets in for the folks who stuck around to in the hopes for pay and QOL improvements from this TA and they decide to leave.

I honestly don't think anything is going to change. The status quo will continue on as normal. People talk a lot on the line and complain, but little doggies can bark all day long however if there is no bite then the company won't care. I really don't see attrition increasing as a result of the "no" vote. Most pilots here are sold on the idea of "I'll just deal with all the PDT shinanigans until I flow" mentality. The only way I see it getting better for the pilot group is if PDT is unable to fill new hire classes and if the current pilot group stops picking up all the open flying. Money talks, if PDT is forced to cancel flights due to not having crews then that will set off alarms higher up that something needs to change. But if all the open time continues to be picked up then why would management care about us at all? I.e. status quo as usual. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Pilot attrition had picked up significantly.. mostly on people here 0 to 2 years.. even the seniority list is updated we still know shortly.. the company is trying to come up with some creative ways to ro retain these folks... don't get excited as they are silly solutions.

We will see next week the size of the nh class this month.. but recruiting is scrambling... word is out... piedmont is not the place to come to.. unless you live in base... don't want too fluffy much for first year... approximately 100 hours in the first year.. and you don't mind only 11 to 14 days in your bed.

I know several folks on the FO and Captain side of things who took other jobs after the TA came out after waiting to see the improvements and being entirely underwhelmed. These jobs include lateral moves to regionals with better pay and QOL, like Republic.

I see a merger with Envoy sooner rather then later.

More likely AA will go after scope relief from mainline pilots and continue to whipsaw the WO against each other to keep wages lower for multiple labor groups.

Piedmont can’t run their operation. Thus they’ll just transfer Piedmont’s only asset (pilots) to Envoy to help staffing over there going forward. Then if they still want 3 WO’s to whipsaw they’ll go buy mesa.

A merger down the line only makes sense - especially when these 145s run out of useful life. I know they will keep them as long as possible, but they can't fly them forever. Heck, after all these forthcoming write-ups for doing 146kts with flaps 45 none of these planes will ever be out of mx.

What’s the MX write up issue? On the flaps 45? Haven’t flown the plane in a long time and I’m forgetting what the speeds were!

Flaps 45 speed is 145. Vapp is often very near that speed. Now I guess the company wants any over speed to be written up. I guess it used to be you could exceed the speed momentarily with no harm no foul.

You guys think merger, but I think a long winded shutdown is more likely with some soft landings program at envoy.

There’s significant savings by keeping the majority of the seniority pools at both airlines under 6 years old, a merger might bring that number up a few years.

Coming to Piedmont is very risky in both the short term and long term, relatively speaking in comparison to PSA and ENY.

AAG all ready tried the Comair 2.0 thing at Envoy. It cost them dearly. They lost nearly 1,500 pilots because of it and I guarantee right now they wish they had all 1500 back.

The moment they even hint at an eventual shutdown they’d lose so many pilots they’d be forced to shut it down immediately or just merge in with Envoy.

They would just run the operation into the ground like wisconsin is, it’s going to be as the planes start to retire. If we don’t get 175s or CRJs sometime in the future that will tell it all.

Also, who is kidding themselves saying piedmont can’t run their business? They made it through summer flying without cancelling flights due to pilot shortages, by offering temporary overtime pay without increasing the labor cost long term. When we stop growing the airline will be staffed just fine and management will look smart for not having to move th whipsaw in the wrong direction for AAG.

You still can up to 155 momentarily, that is the true limitation. Just make sure you are taking steps to get it back to 145 or less in a timely fashion. This is more for the red-line Ralphs out there who overspeed every other leg. I'm always in a .76 or 235 knot state of mind. Anything more is an "unable." 😉

They just released an FIL stating that going past 145kt constitutes exceeding a limitation, forget the 155kt momentary deviation. Right from the chief pilots words. See Facebook.

Don't do Facebook but that's fine. Order up some brakes boys, we will be doing a whole lot of Flap 22 landings again. I'll further protest with no reverse thrust lol.

Don’t you guys have a 10kt buffer in the limitations for gusty conditions for flaps 45?

According to one of the Chief Pilots, published allowances of 145KIAS momentary deviations upto 155KIAS count towards the new limitation exceedance write up requirements. Meaning anything over 145KIAS at flaps 45 is a write up regardless of duration.

Sounds like the expectation is that the aircraft will taxi to the gate and crew will notify the gate agent and dispatch of a mx delay after deplaning and then contact MX to write up the momentary deviation for disposition. Once the Mx process is complete then events can continue as scheduled with the delay.

That is ridiculous! This shows the true problem with having Chief Pilots with no line experience in the aircraft. They don't know what they don't know.

I agree that our CPs should have line experience, but this decision may be coming from higher up. Could even be from the FAA who saw the deviations were happening too frequently.

For real, I get it. It doesn't make sense, so management and/or a government agency is involved. 😛