Care to explain your last LOA at PSA and how the pilot group felt about it being approved without it even going to a vote?

care to explain how that is the fault of the pilot group? also said dictator is finally leaving us. also remember that the company had the right to force upgrades regardless. the only thing that changed was the order. which i agree was bogus.

You’re reaping the benefits of what those people did. Your company brags on Instagram about taking delivery of 700’s. Those airplanes came because your senior members were willing to sellout their entire industry and you are culpable for joining them later on down the road. You guys are too worried about trading SAP for flow and your crappy outstation bases to really care about real issues and to improve the QOL with your fellow WO carriers.

Those airplanes are coming to PSA because that’s what AAG wants. They most likely would of come no matter how PSA voted. Having spoken with most of the lifers I flew with as an FO about their vote and their reasoning for it, most were a no vote and many think the 900s were coming to PSA regardless. It was always AAG’s plan for successfully enveloping 3 WO regionals.

And contract 2013 wasn’t all bad. It gave us the unrestricted SAP and pilots were crediting 125+ hours /month due to the reserve coverage and critical pay language. Company realized this and stopped it which ultimately culminated in an unfavorable decision from an arbitrator. But as it was written it offered unparalleled quality of life and pay at that time.

Literally half of the current pilot group probably has zero clues about any of the history between Envoy and PSA. Like literally zero clue. Most FOs who have asked me about it are completely ignorant to what happened. It isn’t a deciding factor when choosing a regional for most. People just want quality of life and flow and can’t be faulted for that.

And I’m not sure what the point of your last sentence was other than an obvious attempt to make some odd dig and troll further. Of course we’re worried about losing our SAP as much as any pilot group would be worried about any major part of their contract potentially changing. So I guess I just don’t see what you’re getting at with that one...

The dig was weird. I forgot we have control over what bizzaro bases the company opens. It's time to move on. I doubt our friend would turn down a job at UAL because there are still SCABS employed there.

If the expectation truly is that all the new hires going to brand x need to know the entire history of the company's labor relations and how that may or may not have had an impact on the industry as a whole then I would imagine we would have a pretty tough time hiring anyone at all. I didn't know didly about the regionals and i didn't care when i came, i went to what worked best for me like most people. When I leave here I won't care anymore. Just like I don't care about all the part 135 crap when i was in that industry, or the shipping industry when i was in college or any other thing I did.

The sooner y'all let it go and move on the sooner you might realize there is a ton of more important things in life.

New TA is out.
 

Whenever someone goes online, or anywhere for that matter, asking which regional to pick, the very first thing they are told is to pick the place that has the base you want/need. For some time, if someone needed CLT, PSA was their only option. They don’t know a thing about what happened the better part of a decade ago, especially if they’re just getting started in 121. But yet, having never cast a single vote yet, they’re still at responsible for what happened maybe before they were even private pilots. I don’t see anybody on the line willing to cave to anything substandard if there is a vote on something that eventually comes around. I don’t see why the 3 WOs wouldn’t all share the same goals for major improvements for everybody at this point as we all seem to want to see that happen.


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By you choosing to go to PSA after that industry sucker punch vote you in return were supporting it. Especially when you had your choice of regionals since all were hiring.

Therefore you are part of the problem.

A lot of people coming from CFI and military backgrounds, for example, have no clue about contracts, TA, unions, etc. I’ve always thought that the union could put together a new hire presentation at each airline discussing the contract and the various issues that new guys may encounter. This would be a better use of dues instead of a steakhouse dinner every month.

So I shouldn’t go to United because of the pilots that crossed a picket line decades ago because I would be supporting that, or American for how poorly they treated the TWA folks during that merger? I’m sure if I knew more about Delta I could discount them as well.

You’re oversimplifying an issue that isn’t simple for anyone. Bases, commutability, time with family all play a part when people make their decisions on who to work for.

For me, the options were essentially an ATL base or CLT. That left PSA at the time I was hired. I do not regret my decision and I do not lose any sleep worrying about what other pilots think of my decision. I made the best decision for my family at the time and I’ll never regret that.

This is a pdt thread not a psa thread.. the 2013 ratification of the psa CBA is ancient history in the regionals... if you want to be angry be angry at airways management.. but if you are at a wo.. and waiting to flow, you support the current management and accept the same crap treatment when you go to mainline..

It’s almost not even worth trying with some of the people on here anymore. Half of them are devoid of sound logic and they almost all think correlation equals causation.

This x 1,000...

Agreed!

Filler

The beef shouldn’t be with current PSA pilots. 80% of them went to the same flight schools as us. Worked the same 135’s as us. The same part 91’s. Unfortunately there is too many moving parts in this industry and dont get it twisted ALPA could care less about the regionals. Keep your head down. Try to get out or flow. Nobody is winning in the regionals...because regionals Still exist.

I agree it is ancient history, but these are the same ignorant pilots that will be voting with you over at AA. It is wise to understand who your peers are going to be.

If you think they will change the way they vote you are mistaken.You can't change stupid nor someone's character.

Well since PSA is probably next up to the plate, hopefully this “new generation” of PSA pilots will back up their talk.

Correlation does not equal causation. Your rhetoric is devoid of logic.

So side note, remember that PDT company survey we took back in early summer, any idea of when we might see those results or hear some feedback? So far it's been nothing but crickets which is I know the "PDT way" with most things...

The survey was used during negotiations for the 5 point look see.. that's dead in the water now..

And now the recruiting department is struggling...

There are only one reason to come to piedmont right now... you need to live in the philly area and u also need the flow because you have a history that would make you unhirable.

Otherwise we are the lowest paid and lowest qol in the industry.

Ahh gotcha.

I keep hearing that the recruiting department is struggling to hire but I honestly don't see any evidence of that. Every month I see a class of about 20 new hires added, which is I think their plan anywhere.

Now granted I think the days of mass expansion here at PDT are over. I do not think we will ever be a 1500-2000 pilot company. It seems that where we have settled around 750 is where it is going to stay and any hiring they do will be to keep that number there not to increase the total number.

I agree that there really is not a big reason to draw a new hire to PDT other than if they live in PHL and are fresh out of college/flight school, and it just all works for them, or if PDT is their last round draft pick and they could not get on anywhere else.

Yes, the pay is **** (when you compare to our competitors), the QOL (in terms of schedule) is ****, all the processes here in terms of bidding and paper W+B, and having to carry a QRH and PDT's love of the old fashion is outdated and cannot hold a candle to the more modern and more mainstream regionals.

The survey had nothing to do with negotiations. It was mandated by AAG to be done company wide and at each wholly owned as part of their culture first initiative. Just coincidence that it happened to be done during a time of contract negotiations. It was pretty obvious the survey was not designed to gather the thoughts of the pilot group. I wouldn't expect to see any major results from that.

That was a different survey.

We took two surveys.. once by the union used for negotiations and one for american in regards to management practices.

Sadly neither have had any effect on things here..

Surprisingly... the company has just said they can't understand why they can't get people to show to class...

And yes recruiting is working their @ss off... literally securing people to show up the day before class to fill up open spots.. but the list is of people they have on the burner to call is almost zero...

Shouldn’t be a problem as they soon will only be hiring 6-10 pilots a month.

Where did they say this?

Not quoted... sorry.. just from info from clt..

I know a lot of people have that theory.. right how we are only staffing 46 planes a day.. and we're barely holding the line daily... having 58 line planes with 4 spares is a lofty goal.

Also we have a huge deficit of first officers that do not have the 1000 hours to upgrade... this is a major problem right now.. agreed worse in six months

When i first joined pdt we operated 42 dashes... we haven't grown much since..

Right now phl there is 128 lines plus the bup lines and only 8 reserve pilots...

Flying is often covered by sim instructors still...

Seriously .. there is still a ton of uncovered flying that american needs covered..

Know your worth in the market right now.

You should tell that to the MEC... they’re under the impression that if they get the concessionary extension language etc removed that Envoy pay rates are a compelling enough reason that the TA should be passed with no problem...

Impossible now, we long missed the boat.. don't you remember? The company isn't coming back to the table until 2021. We HAD to pass that TA or we're screwed for 3 years!!


Who is our union working for?


Time for a new team, I think.

New team?!? Sounds like a mutiny!!

Either hardball or recall, take your pick MEC!

I choose recall. Term limits for all

They were at the table last wed, Thursday and Friday.. expect an update shortly...

:eek:

Filler

Considering recruiting has taken a nose dive, negotiations won’t really be negotiations, it’ll be more like the company comes to the pilot group and offers QOL improvements to make PDT attractive again. No section anything required. Let’s see how things play out.... Present union got their chance and the failed TA is what we were offered.

The point is, the union offered this poor TA and ALWAYS followed it with "this is all we will get. If we vote no, status quo is what you will get." So not only did they get us a bad deal, they lied to us to try to get us to accept it. Many of us saw right through it, clearly some did not.

I’m confused as to what you are trying to get at, because we are clearly not negotiating the TA any further otherwise the Union would have said so.

We sent a message and I guess that’s all that matters at this point.

If you’re right though then I’m happy. I don’t need to wag my dick around a message board trying to prove who is right or wrong. We’re all in the same boat over here and want the same things.