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FAA Looking at VA Records (Indictments!)

Old 08-31-2018, 08:47 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by 155mm View Post
I agree but there are laws in place such as HIPPA and the Privacy Act of 1974 that have to be adhered to in order for the FAA to retrieve that "protected information" and/or the VA to disclose it. The process the FAA used to gather or the VA used to disburse that information may or may not have been within the framework of the law ie: court order.

"Restricts disclosure of PII (personally identifiable information) that is maintained by
the Federal Government, including VA.
(Information can only be disclosed under
certain situations permitted by law. Otherwise,
information cannot be disclosed without your
prior written authorization.) " https://www.oprm.va.gov/docs/Privacy...ochure_508.pdf

Interesting article on the mismanagement of VA medical records:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...cal-facilities
PII rules are quite complex with regards to federal agencies sharing info. But many of them do have the infrastructure in place to share info....

https://www.csoonline.com/article/28...h-records.html

But there's a pretty obvious loophole to me...

I don't think privacy act would prevent an agency from asking Treasury if you get payments from the VA. If you do, but checked "no" on the 8500, now DoJ has probable cause to subpoena your VA and FAA medical records for a detailed comparison.

The system is simply not going to bend over backwards to protect airline pilots who are lying to the FAA about their medical status. Congress would quickly amend the privacy act if needed (ie high profile issue came to light).
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:07 AM
  #22  
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Could the FAA argue that an applicant for a medical certificate has given implied consent to verification, at least against any previous statements made to the Federal Government?
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:38 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by tomgoodman View Post
Could the FAA argue that an applicant for a medical certificate has given implied consent to verification, at least against any previous statements made to the Federal Government?
Probably. There seems to be policy precedent both ways on that.

I think as a default...

Info maintained by the FAA is NOT healthcare related. It is obtained and used to maintain aviation safety, and can probably be used in a reasonable manner for that purpose (ie shared with LE/DOJ, but not posted on the internet for all to google).

Info maintained by the VA seems healthcare-related to me, and as such seems like it should be more protected (HIPA) than the same info held by the FAA.

I think as a starting point, the VA should NOT allow blanket FAA/DOJ fishing expeditions to access all their data. But I suspect that some enterprising federal lawyers might possibly be able to find a loophole, especially while waving the "safety of the flying public" flag.

But I don't know for sure, just know that it's complicated and there is a real risk if you're gaming the system. Point being, don't game the system and if you are, try to get it "corrected" asap.

Of course, any hint of probable cause obtained by other means opens any and all records to subpoena. That may have been what happened in these cases.
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Old 08-31-2018, 01:27 PM
  #24  
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One alternative view of disability payments is that it’s compensation for injuries suffered while in the service of the government. It’s not a medical issue; it’s compensation that, in civil industry, you might settle thru lawsuits or arbitration. I had a spinal compression fracture and a fusion done as the repair. My flight surgeon was also an FAA FS. The FAA had recently added the disability payment question and he recommended never file for disability until my career as a pilot was over and done. I never did, as I never felt “disabled”, but clearly would be eligible now. A friend was badly beaten up in a T-38 ejection (Keith ate aspirin like candy), 30% disability, but still flew.

GF
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Old 08-31-2018, 01:59 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
One alternative view of disability payments is that it’s compensation for injuries suffered while in the service of the government. It’s not a medical issue; it’s compensation that, in civil industry, you might settle thru lawsuits or arbitration. I had a spinal compression fracture and a fusion done as the repair. My flight surgeon was also an FAA FS. The FAA had recently added the disability payment question and he recommended never file for disability until my career as a pilot was over and done. I never did, as I never felt “disabled”, but clearly would be eligible now. A friend was badly beaten up in a T-38 ejection (Keith ate aspirin like candy), 30% disability, but still flew.

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This is really how it works^^^

But the FAA recently decided that they want to have the opportunity to review any VA (or other) disability to make their own determination as to whether they have an aeromedical impact.

Their implementation has been perfectly reasonable to date from my perspective, when that box appeared and I checked it it was easy to show my AME that all of my VA items were "previously, reported, no change" on my 8500.

That probably put a bunch of folks in a pickle though... if they had VA disability ratings for things that they had never reported to the FAA, and had been doing it for years. Like I said before, this is all trending in only one direction and I seriously doubt this pendulum will ever swing back. Better to confront it pro-actively, rather than wait until caught.
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Old 08-31-2018, 04:13 PM
  #26  
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This looks like the FAA was given access to the VA database of disability payments and then cross referenced everyone on VA disability to the FAA database. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the tip of the iceberg on prosecutions.
Note that all four cases involve mental/headache issues. That's likely round one of these prosecutions.

If you're collecting VA disability and have an active FAA medical, I'd recommend that you call your union's medical staff and talk to them immediately. It doesn't matter if you report everything on your FAA medical, I'd still recommend doing a sanity check on this issue with your union medical staff.
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Old 08-31-2018, 06:31 PM
  #27  
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I'm continually surprised when I see pilots in the parking lot climbing into their pickup with a Disabled Veteran license plate (in the disabled parking slots right up front.)

I'm thinking the threshold must be pretty low for that plate.
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Old 08-31-2018, 06:41 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
This looks like the FAA was given access to the VA database of disability payments and then cross referenced everyone on VA disability to the FAA database.
Did you see that in the media somewhere? That was my guess too, VA medical data might be off limits (HIPA), but I suspect that treasury data is not so protected.

Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if this is the tip of the iceberg on prosecutions.
Might be. Hopefully there are very few people who oblivious enough to think they could get away with it. Although the addition of the question about disability payments to the 8500 might have caught a few folks between a rock and a hard place.

Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Note that all four cases involve mental/headache issues. That's likely round one of these prosecutions.
Might well be. The FAA went hard over on mental health after germanwings. The VA handing out PTSD ratings like candy doesn't help.

Originally Posted by Andy View Post
If you're collecting VA disability and have an active FAA medical, I'd recommend that you call your union's medical staff and talk to them immediately. It doesn't matter if you report everything on your FAA medical, I'd still recommend doing a sanity check on this issue with your union medical staff.
Call somebody. But my VA records match my FAA file, so I'm not concerned.

Last edited by rickair7777; 10-09-2018 at 06:53 AM. Reason: HTML Format Fix
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Old 08-31-2018, 06:59 PM
  #29  
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FAA Home ▸ Offices ▸ Aviation Safety ▸ Offices ▸ Aerospace Medicine ▸ Aviation Medical Examiner (AME) Information ▸ Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners ▸ Application Process ▸ Applicant History
Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners

Application Process for Medical Certification
Applicant History - Item 18. Medical History
y. Medical Disability Benefits
The applicant must report any disability benefits received, regardless of source or amount. If the applicant checks yes on this item, the FAA may verify with other Federal Agencies (ie. Social Security Administration, Veteran's Affairs) whether the applicant is receiving a disability benefit that may present a conflict in issuing an FAA medical certificate. The Examiner must document the specifics and nature of the disability in findings in Item 60.
Page last modified: August 20, 2013 3:15:11 PM EDT
Bold type added. Apparently this has been going on to a greater or lesser degree for five years.

This seems to be the testimony to Congress that lead to the requirement to reveal all disability payments being added to the FAA medical history:

https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/defaul...ony_july17.pdf

Last edited by Excargodog; 08-31-2018 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Adding SAFE PILOT testimony.
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:31 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by sherpster View Post
I have talked with retiring military folks who are stressing over VA disability and getting a FAA physical. The FAA will give you a Class 1 medical even if you have all kinds of crap wrong with you. Just report it and deal with it. If you havent reported it yet then contact your regional FAA flight medical office and tell them the TRUTH today and they will get you squared away. They are the medical side of the FAA, not the enforcement side. If it is true these 3 guys were major airline pilots then can you imagine what a dumb move this was for these guys to not report their conditions?????? I have no idea if they will go to prison or not but it would not surprise me if they do. They say the VA hands out disability like candy (true) but the FAA hands out Class 1's like candy also. They dont care about your knee, wrist, elbow, or whatever else you have wrong with you. If you are claiming some mental issue with the VA then maybe you shouldnt be flying until you get that squared away. JUST BE HONEST PEOPLE!
While I agree with your assertion to be honest on the medical application (because dishonesty is a crime), your post seems to suggest that people who declare disabilities to the VA shouldn't have any worries on an FAA medical application. This is not the case.

A patient who has been diagnosed with psychiatric problems, for example, will face an uphill battle in obtaining an FAA medical certificate, particularly if medication is involved. Likewise, numerous physical disabilities claimed from the VA will impact one's ability to hold medical certification for flying. One should be aware that having been diagnosed, and having declared it, there's no getting around it on the medical application, or the consequences for declaring it on the medical application.

The single most common disability for veterans is hearing loss. Little wonder, for those who have been in situations conducive to hearing loss, which is a great deal of military operations, combat or otherwise. This also impacts the ability to hold a medical certificate. Fortunately in that case, it's testable and fairly straight forward; not so with many other conditions.

Yes, be honest, yes, don't hide anything, and yes, declare it when applying for a medical certificate, but also be prepared for the steps necessary to obtain the medical, including waivers, additional testing, and so forth. The disability may be worth a little money from the VA, but it may also cost a lot going in for the FAA medical, and may cost on a recurring basis. Anyone considering pursuing a flying career should take that into account, if looking ahead down the road.
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