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Old 03-15-2015, 08:55 PM   #21  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid View Post

The only people though I have ever seen have sleep trouble in cockpits were heavy drinkers. I wonder if they'll add alcohol to the mix regardless of bmi?
Most of the people I have seen nodding off are those flying AM's, PM's, and Red Eyes, all in the same 4 day rotation (a common schedule for many of us these days which destroys healthy circadian rhythm/alertness). Of course this was all downplayed by airline management and their lobbyist and ignored by the FAA to "preserve schedules and economic viability" leading up to FAR117. Only to have a lessor problem scrutinized to show "safety is our number one priority!"
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Old 03-15-2015, 09:10 PM   #22  
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Pilot eating habits are surprising. Our job is tough on our circadian rhythms and eating patterns/habits. We are sedentary due to the nature of flying. But that having been said I still can't believe there are grown men in their 40s and 50s who will down 2-3 cans of Coke a day in flight. I'm sorry, that is waaay too much sugar at that age! That omelet breakfast looks fantastic, but did you read the menu where it said that they use 3 full eggs to make it? IIRC one egg yoke has ~80% of your recommended cholesterol intake for a day. etc. etc. It starts with good eating habits and a regular exercise routine.
you missed the Federal government's recent U-turn on 40 years of cholesterol hysteria:

Quote:
Scientists get egg on their faces - Chicago Tribune

Cholesterol, defamed for more than three decades by nutritional science, subject of countless warnings to egg-craving Americans, has now been exonerated as Public Food Enemy No 1. The nation's top nutrition advisory panel has dropped charges against dietary cholesterol, recommending that it can no longer be considered a "nutrient of concern."


The new thinking: scarfing down cholesterol-chocked delicacies does not appear to significantly affect the level of cholesterol in the blood for many people. It won't spike the risk of a heart attack, if they don't also gorge on foods high in still-hazardous-to-your-health saturated fats and trans fats.
To which we say: Grrrrr. All those years of snubbing scrambled eggs! All those guilty gulpings of cholesterol-chocked grilled shrimp! All that angst, guilt, paranoia ... for what?

Current U.S. guidelines tell Americans to restrict cholesterol to 300 milligrams a day. But it turns out there hasn't been much scientific evidence lately to bolster four decades of dire warnings about cholesterol. Studies "were mostly historic, inadequately designed and insufficient in number" to make such a strong anti-cholesterol statement, University of Colorado medical professor Robert Eckel tells us.


Why did this conclusion take so many years? "It's just one of those things that gets carried forward and carried forward even though the evidence is minimal," Eckel told The Washington Post.

Enjoy that omelet and don't bother to make it without the yoke.


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Old 03-15-2015, 09:25 PM   #23  
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Here's how I see the BMI:

1. Extremely Obese = Extremely Obese which is the BMI 40 the FAA is testing but remember the FAA was clear in 2013 they wanted to start with 40 and eventually test and treat everyone. 30% of people with BMI of normal and overweight have the targeted issue.

2. Obese = Doesn't work out OR buff and works out a lot, lifts weights a lot.

3. Overweight = Doesn't work out but eats well OR normal person who eats right and works
out often, especially on the bottom of that overweight scale. If you work out a lot you'll probably be in the mid to top of that scale.

4. Normal = Doesn't eat and doesn't work out OR runs marathons, which are surprisingly unhealthy.

5. Slightly Underweight = Near dead.

Basically if you want the near 200 year old BMI calculation to find you normal, don't work out. If you do work out you'll probably find yourself to be slightly overweight.

Last edited by forgot to bid; 03-15-2015 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 03-15-2015, 09:33 PM   #24  
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So it looks like almost every guy over 50 who does any type of red eyes, international flying will be in there considering it takes 3 triggers. >50. Male. Sleepiness with breathing pauses, which is everyone considering there is a minute pause between the inhale and exhale unless I'm missing something there. Or if he snores.

Never mind the ridiculous BMI that considers you overweight for working out and actually having some muscle on your bones.
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Old 03-15-2015, 09:38 PM   #25  
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Fully understand your sentiment. But I am not an AME, I have no influence on who gets referred, I had no influence on the FAA, and my interaction has been with pilots who have needed help with SI. The reality is there are going to be pilots who are identified as being at high risk for OSA, they are going to need to find a sleep physician who can ensure that the medical certificate is not placed in jeopardy. If that is what a troll does so be it.
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Old 03-15-2015, 09:44 PM   #26  
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
Pilot eating habits are surprising. Our job is tough on our circadian rhythms and eating patterns/habits. We are sedentary due to the nature of flying. But that having been said I still can't believe there are grown men in their 40s and 50s who will down 2-3 cans of Coke a day in flight. I'm sorry, that is waaay too much sugar at that age! That omelet breakfast looks fantastic, but did you read the menu where it said that they use 3 full eggs to make it? IIRC one egg yoke has ~80% of your recommended cholesterol intake for a day. etc. etc. It starts with good eating habits and a regular exercise routine.
You need to take a look at what the French eat, tons of cholesterol, yet they have a heart disease rate much smaller than the U.S. Cholestrol is not the problem, hydrogenated oils and processed foods are the real heart killers.
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Old 03-15-2015, 10:24 PM   #27  
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You need to take a look at what the French eat, tons of cholesterol, yet they have a heart disease rate much smaller than the U.S. Cholestrol is not the problem, hydrogenated oils and processed foods are the real heart killers.
Processed foods, tv-dinners, even frozen vegetables, there is rarely anything "good" for you in these things. The frozen veggies might be better than the rest, but most anything from the frozen aisle is to be avoided. A lot of canned stuff as well. Most of this stuff is loaded with sodium for a long shelf life, then countered with something sweet to offset the sodium. You are usually loading up on lots of stuff that isn't beneficial for nutrition when you eat this. Grains, nuts, fruits, veggies all make perfectly acceptable snacks and meals.

Most obese people I know eat absolutely crazy and are sedentary in and outside of work.
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Old 03-15-2015, 10:50 PM   #28  
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Mine wasn't an all inclusive list, I just listed a few examples. Yes certain oils and processed foods are worse.
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Old 03-15-2015, 11:22 PM   #29  
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Requiring AME to delve into factors "other than BMI" may well be more insidious to more airmen than the BMI alone.
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Old 03-16-2015, 04:56 AM   #30  
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You guys didn't think Age 65 was going to come without more rigorous medical standards, did you?

This rule feels like it was written by people like the OP, and I think it's designed to force most people into sleep studies, and treatment. How lucrative that must be!

On the other hand, it's an issue worth considering. I'd be curious to hear from someone that isn't a sleep specialist telling us what experiences they've had in this regard, whether it is indeed better to get out in front of this, and where the facilities are that will provide good treatment without artificially forcing pilots into treatment purgatory, etc.
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