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Old 03-16-2015, 05:00 AM   #31  
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Requiring AME to delve into factors "other than BMI" may well be more insidious to more airmen than the BMI alone.
No kidding. I can definitely see how a BMI of 35 should be a red flag. I ran my numbers through. I'm the fatest I've ever been, and I still would need to be 50 lbs higher to reach 35.

Some of the other factors feel a bit like a witch-hunt. I'm surprised that frequently having to sit, and resorting to rollaboards to carry a load, are not listed as risk factors.
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:14 AM   #32  
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No kidding. I'm actually the same weight as high school but it's shifted But according to the chart I need to gain 55 lbs to reach a BMI of 35. Guess I can stop at cinabon today


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No kidding. I can definitely see how a BMI of 35 should be a red flag. I ran my numbers through. I'm the fatest I've ever been, and I still would need to be 50 lbs higher to reach 35.

Some of the other factors feel a bit like a witch-hunt. I'm surprised that frequently having to sit, and resorting to rollaboards to carry a load, are not listed as risk factors.
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:29 AM   #33  
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You guys didn't think Age 65 was going to come without more rigorous medical standards, did you?

This rule feels like it was written by people like the OP, and I think it's designed to force most people into sleep studies, and treatment. How lucrative that must be!

On the other hand, it's an issue worth considering. I'd be curious to hear from someone that isn't a sleep specialist telling us what experiences they've had in this regard, whether it is indeed better to get out in front of this, and where the facilities are that will provide good treatment without artificially forcing pilots into treatment purgatory, etc.
When this came up a while back there was a pilot posting in a thread here who gave a real life experience. The problem seemed to be that the treatments the FAA wanted were not what a sane doctor would want you to do and the FAA didn't/doesn't consider losing weight a solution- they wanted surgery.

....

Here I found his post:

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The FAA is moving forward with an NTSB recommendation to require additional sleep study testing for a medical certificate if you have a history of sleep apnea, and/or if you meet certain criteria that would increase the likely hood of you having the disorder. I would imagine the additional criteria would be in the form of height and weight standards. Pretty much anyone over 200lbs would be a candidate for such testing.

I am a victim of sleep apnea myself and I have been through the entire process and I can tell you that it is a royal pain in the arse. First an initial sleep study would be required. If the initial study showed signs of sleep apnea you would be required to seek further treatment. Types of treatment include surgical procedures to remove your tonsils(if you still have them,) septoplasty, removal of your uvula, removal of a portion of your upper pallet, a procedure where they break your lower jaw and place steel extenders in it to move your lower mandible forward, implants put into your tongue to pull your tongue away from the back of your throat and a few others. Most often times one of the above procedures is coupled with the use of a mouthpiece worn while sleeping, or the use of a CPAP or BIPAP machine that goes over your face while you sleep. It usually takes a multiple approaches and even then, usually the Apnea doesn't go away completely. Cure rate is usually around 33-40% in adults. Losing weight also helps, but losing weight as a single solution is not an approved therapy per the FAA.

Once one of the above treatments is complete the pilot must undergo a follow up sleep study to determine the effects of the procedure. After my procedure, I am still required to use a CPAP machine and I have to undergo annual Maintenance of Wakefulness Testing to make sure I don't get sleepy during the daytime.

The MWT is an all day test that usually starts around 6:30am. They hook a bunch of wires up to your head and chest(similar to the sleep study) and put you on a bed in the sitting position in the dark. The room looks like a hotel, or bedroom. They close the door for 30-40 minutes and you have to sit there in the dark and not fall asleep. You just sit there. They watch you on camera the whole time to. You can't do anything to keep yourself awake either. No singing, humming, slapping yourself in the face etc. You have to sit still. Once you come out of the dark room you are confined to their clinic. You cannot leave the hospital. With about 2 hours in between tests, you go back into the bedroom and do it again. You repeat this process until approximately 5:00pm. This test flat out sucks.

Here are my thoughts....

I am a young man of about 225lbs and I am 6' tall (BMI 30). I am willing to bet that nearly 75% of the guys I fly with are shorter and much bigger than me and all suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnea. It goes undiagnosed because the tests are expensive and you have to have a reason to get tested for it. Do you snore at night? Chances are, if you snore, you will be one of the FAAs prime suspects when you get your medical. Question is, will guys near 60 years old, or between 60 and 65 be willing to go through all of this just to be able to fly for a few more years. My quick answer is no.

Any thoughts?
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:43 AM   #34  
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The greatest test for sleep apnea is your wife/girlfriend
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:49 AM   #35  
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Which one is best, dalad?
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:52 AM   #36  
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When this came up a while back there was a pilot posting in a thread here who gave a real life experience. The problem seemed to be that the treatments the FAA wanted were not what a sane doctor would want you to do and the FAA didn't/doesn't consider losing weight a solution- they wanted surgery.

....

Here I found his post:
Thanks, ftb

I think the best thing to do is to identify facilities that are reasonable, and working for you, instead of against you. I think this is an issue worth investigating, but the standards seem designed to funnel pilots into studies and treatment, and it seems as though those are designed to keep you trapped, and using expensive procedures and invasive solutions.

Which, as luck would have it, they provide.
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:54 AM   #37  
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Mine wasn't an all inclusive list, I just listed a few examples. Yes certain oils and processed foods are worse.
You're right. Processed foods are probably the vast majority of the problem. Especially when they start making the fat free stuff or the stuff they're trying to make last a long time. Even what seems to be good for you stuff can be stripped of the good for you stuff in processing.

There is a local Doctor here in Atlanta that has a radio show that is pretty interesting to listen to the science of nutrition and he's a chiropractor so all of that witch doctory stuff. I'll look for his podcasts....

But he made it kind of simple, more than 3-4 ingredients then it's probably not good for you. I looked at a bag of nuts one time at the airport that had like 10 ingredients. How do they do that? Then I looked at a rice krispies treat, it was like 2 paragraphs of science words.
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Old 03-16-2015, 06:02 AM   #38  
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You're right. Processed foods are probably the vast majority of the problem. Especially when they start making the fat free stuff or the stuff they're trying to make last a long time. Even what seems to be good for you stuff can be stripped of the good for you stuff in processing.

There is a local Doctor here in Atlanta that has a radio show that is pretty interesting to listen to the science of nutrition and he's a chiropractor so all of that witch doctory stuff. I'll look for his podcasts....

But he made it kind of simple, more than 3-4 ingredients then it's probably not good for you. I looked at a bag of nuts one time at the airport that had like 10 ingredients. How do they do that? Then I looked at a rice krispies treat, it was like 2 paragraphs of science words.
Thanks a lot. I just ate a Cliff Bar. Look at bthe ingredients on that the next time you get a chance
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Old 03-16-2015, 06:11 AM   #39  
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Can't believe this is an issue, people over 35 BMI shouldn't even be allowed to hold a first class medical.
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Old 03-16-2015, 06:25 AM   #40  
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No kidding. I'm actually the same weight as high school but it's shifted But according to the chart I need to gain 55 lbs to reach a BMI of 35. Guess I can stop at cinabon today
Here's the thing, even if you're 5'5" and 50 lbs away from BMI 35, you're still overweight per the BMI, not per the eyeball though.

But here is the thing, your BMI is not an issue to them, this is about OSA, and the FAA made it clear already that: "once we have appropriately dealt with every airman examinee who has a BMI of 40 or greater, we will gradually expand the testing pool by going to lower BMI measurements until we have identified and assured treatment for every airman with OSA.

The fact they want to test for something, ground you and then not have a decent solution other than the surgical ones is a red flag to me that this is a highly intrusive yet not a well thought out program.

I kind of wish they were just concentrating on BMI and body fat, at least it'd make sense. Then losing weight would be a solution and a good one or a lot of reasons, such as preventing a heart attack in flight? But that's not a problem to the FAA, the focus is OSA.

And to the FAA losing weight is not an acceptable solution to OSA, hence, BMI is not the issue to begin with.

Someone in OKC has their "thing" with OSA and wants to start an expedition on pilots and that keeps me from sleeping soundly at night, I mean I wake up coughing gasping for air because of it
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