Stop coming here
09-12-2018 | 08:24 AM
#112
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
They certainly didn't do an admirable job of keeping the wheels on the bus back in June.
I have higher expectations of management of a supposedly stand-alone company than you do. This is probably due in part to my disdain for the way the industry is structured, with legacy carriers utilizing contractors and subsidiaries to avoid paying wage levels they otherwise would if they performed the services "in-house". Meanwhile the legacy carrier still effectively exercises "operational control", and portrays the service level as equal to the legacy brand...until something goes wrong...then it's the subsidiary's fault.
I'd probably be more willing to accept the above, if someone would step up and accept responsibility and accountability. That doesn't happen though with PSA. It's always "outside our control"...which leads to the rational question - "If it's outside our control, how does anything anyone does matter?"
I applaud you for being able to better accept the reality of the situation. You're probably even able to wear the American Airlines lanyard to hold your badge on...despite the fact that our pay comes not from AA, but from PSA.
I struggle with the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" operating philosophy. You can consider it a character flaw.
I have higher expectations of management of a supposedly stand-alone company than you do. This is probably due in part to my disdain for the way the industry is structured, with legacy carriers utilizing contractors and subsidiaries to avoid paying wage levels they otherwise would if they performed the services "in-house". Meanwhile the legacy carrier still effectively exercises "operational control", and portrays the service level as equal to the legacy brand...until something goes wrong...then it's the subsidiary's fault.
I'd probably be more willing to accept the above, if someone would step up and accept responsibility and accountability. That doesn't happen though with PSA. It's always "outside our control"...which leads to the rational question - "If it's outside our control, how does anything anyone does matter?"
I applaud you for being able to better accept the reality of the situation. You're probably even able to wear the American Airlines lanyard to hold your badge on...despite the fact that our pay comes not from AA, but from PSA.
I struggle with the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" operating philosophy. You can consider it a character flaw.
Regional airlines, of the past were true stand alone identities, that flew their own paint, and operated equipment like Shorts, Foker, Jet streams, and saab, on much shorter routes and sold there services and loads to the big boys or were just content flying non competitive small city pairs and routes that weren't serviced by legacy carriers. Yes the pay was low, but they were flying 19 to 30 pax as opposed to 50 to 76 pax on smaller equipment and generated less revenue for thier market segement. Which in todays money is essentially the same pay for moving more pax to control a market for mainline. These companies had names like ComAir, Wright, Brit, Chicago express, Empire, and Allegany to name a few. They were accountable to their respective stake holders, and employees, and weren't wholly owned subsidiaries to some larger entity.
When it comes to accountability, non of the previously mentioned regional carriers would have survived a melt down like we just did. If they did someone surely would have been let go.
2 pennies
09-19-2018 | 06:36 PM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 793
Likes: 0
From: FO
Strongly disagree. This response reeks of enitlement and a lack of understanding in business and compensation practices amongst various industries.
1.) Aviation is comperable to other skilled professions. Go live on a medical intern or resident salary and tell me how you feel. You're flying a smaller plane, doing most of the scut work, getting your ass kicked by awful schedules. Cry me a river -- EVERY skilled career, be it a doctor, lawyer, or airline pilot starts out at the bottom of the compensation ladder with the worst quality of life. Stop acting like aviation is somehow more sacred than the intern prescribing your grandmothers medicine. How many hours has that intern worked, how many orders have they filled, and how many reports do they have to write for their resident? And what's their compensation?
Airline pilots have it the best we've had it in a long time, and I'm making more than my friend whos in his residency. I'm home more (and I commute). I have more free time. You arbitrarily throw out $150K as the base starting for an airline pilot, but the truth is if you got that you'd still complain. You're stuck on the hedonic treadmill, plain and simple.
2.) OR, and hear me out on this, bad word of mouth spreads based on a video. That word of mouth leads to a loss of pilots, which causes CCF to skyrocket, which in turn leads to a loss of flying when AA realizes we can't staff our routes. So, rather than providing better compensation, AA (who's in fiscal turmoil as it is) decides to start pinching pennies, and all the sudden that magical quality of life you're looking for gets further away. There's always at least two paths every story can go down. Just because you have the lofty idea that the idealistic and altruistic executives in Dallas will realize they need to float cash to PSA to solve the problem doesn't mean that's what they'll do.
The truth is, if ananyone is at fault for the poor QOL and pay, it's the pilot group. WE elected our respresentation, ratified a contract, and told the airline in black ink on paper "these are our expectations, and this is how long we expect it for."
Them's the games of being part of a union. If you don't like the situation you're in, I strongly suggest you think more clearly about who you intend to elect next.
1.) Aviation is comperable to other skilled professions. Go live on a medical intern or resident salary and tell me how you feel. You're flying a smaller plane, doing most of the scut work, getting your ass kicked by awful schedules. Cry me a river -- EVERY skilled career, be it a doctor, lawyer, or airline pilot starts out at the bottom of the compensation ladder with the worst quality of life. Stop acting like aviation is somehow more sacred than the intern prescribing your grandmothers medicine. How many hours has that intern worked, how many orders have they filled, and how many reports do they have to write for their resident? And what's their compensation?
Airline pilots have it the best we've had it in a long time, and I'm making more than my friend whos in his residency. I'm home more (and I commute). I have more free time. You arbitrarily throw out $150K as the base starting for an airline pilot, but the truth is if you got that you'd still complain. You're stuck on the hedonic treadmill, plain and simple.
2.) OR, and hear me out on this, bad word of mouth spreads based on a video. That word of mouth leads to a loss of pilots, which causes CCF to skyrocket, which in turn leads to a loss of flying when AA realizes we can't staff our routes. So, rather than providing better compensation, AA (who's in fiscal turmoil as it is) decides to start pinching pennies, and all the sudden that magical quality of life you're looking for gets further away. There's always at least two paths every story can go down. Just because you have the lofty idea that the idealistic and altruistic executives in Dallas will realize they need to float cash to PSA to solve the problem doesn't mean that's what they'll do.
The truth is, if ananyone is at fault for the poor QOL and pay, it's the pilot group. WE elected our respresentation, ratified a contract, and told the airline in black ink on paper "these are our expectations, and this is how long we expect it for."
Them's the games of being part of a union. If you don't like the situation you're in, I strongly suggest you think more clearly about who you intend to elect next.
Funny you don’t think passengers should pay more for tickets due to higher cost of AAG doing business and due PRIMARILY to higher fuel prices. Record profits last year! Airline still highly profitable vs many years ago!
AAG culture is trending towards a business model of AmericanWest, Spirit, and other LLC vs a mainline premium carrier it seems. Great get some basic economy fares, great make the bathroom smaller to squeeze more seats and less leg room. Still record profits last year, very profitable this year as well.
AAG made the decision to return $3 Billion over the next few yrs to shareholders.
Pilots are not to blame for the current industry issues & request for more! Mainline business practices caused it. Passengers are paying less than what tickets should be worth, and government & Airport agencies are hiding additional costs /taxes (PFC) into tickets. Airlines are fighting to leverage just $1-$5 in ticket prices and/or ancillary fees to remain competitive with passenger growth and demands
Pilots are not the problem! Hell, Pilots are coming into this 121 Regional industry only because wages finally were raised above poverty level! Regionals are flying more and more jets and advances jets and carrying more passengers further, faster, and higher than 20years ago!
Without Pilots no growth! Pay pilots what industry wages demand (Republic & Endeavor) and respective QOL). Growth will come if the right bases are offered, they will come. Staff training department and reduce training backlog and they will come.
09-21-2018 | 10:29 AM
#114
spin 2
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 441
Likes: 1
From: the big one
https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/a-pilot-for-an-american-airlines-regional-carrier-quit-then-he-made-a-controversial-youtube-video-to-explain-why.html
You guys see this? Thoughts? I think it’s a bad way to burn some bridges. Regardless of the facts or not.
You guys see this? Thoughts? I think it’s a bad way to burn some bridges. Regardless of the facts or not.
09-21-2018 | 12:08 PM
#116
Line Holder
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: FOE/CA
We’ve all complained about some of the same things, but...
Whining because you don’t know how to pack a lunch-
Whining because you can’t plan a commute-
Whining because you choose the most senior base vs. one you can hold a decent line-
Showing off the snacks you STOLE from the airline (sure we all do it, but how does the co. feel?)
— so much more. Douche-bag.
Doing it in Uniform? Classless.
And he says he “can always go back.” No douche. You’ll never work in the airlines again.
Gonna be a CFI? I wouldn’t send my worst students to you. I wouldn’t let you near a female of any age.
Say $50k is not enough to live on, yet you beg for patreon spnsorship? C0ck-biter.
We called him “baldy,” or “porno.” That’s the kind of douche he is.
>(typed while waiting in line at Starbucks)
09-21-2018 | 01:31 PM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,123
Likes: 303
On the plus side, that "article" was horribly written and I couldn't get past the first couple paragraph sentences. I doubt many others did.
09-21-2018 | 05:06 PM
#119
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: CRJ CA
Crazy this thread has gone on so long, but im not surprised. The culture (imho) here is cavitating from the inside.
However, the part in said ariticle about pay is spot on. You can slice that anyway you want and its still not what a part 121 airline pilot should make. If we made more we wouldn't have to hire guys like this a$s clown.
If you think that the hireing standards have not lowered (exponentially) over the past 8 years you are either a retard or smoking crack.
However, the part in said ariticle about pay is spot on. You can slice that anyway you want and its still not what a part 121 airline pilot should make. If we made more we wouldn't have to hire guys like this a$s clown.
If you think that the hireing standards have not lowered (exponentially) over the past 8 years you are either a retard or smoking crack.
09-22-2018 | 02:53 PM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Yes. He was a douche in INDOC too. The guy nobody wanted to ride with to the training center. The guy who was always talking about sex and porn for no apparent reason. Even when the people around him, of both genders, were clearly uncomfortable.
We’ve all complained about some of the same things, but...
Whining because you don’t know how to pack a lunch-
Whining because you can’t plan a commute-
Whining because you choose the most senior base vs. one you can hold a decent line-
Showing off the snacks you STOLE from the airline (sure we all do it, but how does the co. feel?)
— so much more. Douche-bag.
Doing it in Uniform? Classless.
And he says he “can always go back.” No douche. You’ll never work in the airlines again.
Gonna be a CFI? I wouldn’t send my worst students to you. I wouldn’t let you near a female of any age.
Say $50k is not enough to live on, yet you beg for patreon spnsorship? C0ck-biter.
We called him “baldy,” or “porno.” That’s the kind of douche he is.
>(typed while waiting in line at Starbucks)
We’ve all complained about some of the same things, but...
Whining because you don’t know how to pack a lunch-
Whining because you can’t plan a commute-
Whining because you choose the most senior base vs. one you can hold a decent line-
Showing off the snacks you STOLE from the airline (sure we all do it, but how does the co. feel?)
— so much more. Douche-bag.
Doing it in Uniform? Classless.
And he says he “can always go back.” No douche. You’ll never work in the airlines again.
Gonna be a CFI? I wouldn’t send my worst students to you. I wouldn’t let you near a female of any age.
Say $50k is not enough to live on, yet you beg for patreon spnsorship? C0ck-biter.
We called him “baldy,” or “porno.” That’s the kind of douche he is.
>(typed while waiting in line at Starbucks)
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