PSA vs ENY vs PDT
10-30-2018, 12:16 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
PSA vs ENY vs PDT
I’m trying to evaluate which WO is my best bet, all things considered and given my goals/situation, and I’d appreciate your objective thoughts toward that.
It’s important to me to live in base & at a base that’s as junior as possible for both FO’s & CA’s, but I have some flexibility on where we’ll live (biggest consideration is someplace where the cost of living is sane in a neighborhood that doesn’t require donning Kevlar to get mail); I currently live in the DFW area, but we have no ties here (other than my wife holding a decent - but not great - job) and we may well choose to move to ORD if we get on with ENY to live in a more junior base. I’ll be starting indoc at age 42. My goal is to fly as much as possible (while living in base) to get 1000 hours 121 ASAP to upgrade as soon as possible & build TPIC - I see the regionals as a means to an end. In a perfect world, I’d like to avoid 50-seat equipment (although don’t care whether I end up in CRJ-7/900 or E-175), but - if there’s enough overall & more important positives - then E-145 or CRJ-200 would be great (ie, no SJS here, but I know QoL is better in larger equipment, all other things being equal). Ultimate goal may or may not end up being AA (another legacy or an LCC/ULCC or even an ACMI could well end up being the primary objective), but I believe it’s wise to have the flow as insurance/backup (I’ve done the work to understand other regional options & what I’m giving up for the flow and WO’s are what make sense to us, all things considered).
Thanks in advance for any objective input you’re good enough to share.
It’s important to me to live in base & at a base that’s as junior as possible for both FO’s & CA’s, but I have some flexibility on where we’ll live (biggest consideration is someplace where the cost of living is sane in a neighborhood that doesn’t require donning Kevlar to get mail); I currently live in the DFW area, but we have no ties here (other than my wife holding a decent - but not great - job) and we may well choose to move to ORD if we get on with ENY to live in a more junior base. I’ll be starting indoc at age 42. My goal is to fly as much as possible (while living in base) to get 1000 hours 121 ASAP to upgrade as soon as possible & build TPIC - I see the regionals as a means to an end. In a perfect world, I’d like to avoid 50-seat equipment (although don’t care whether I end up in CRJ-7/900 or E-175), but - if there’s enough overall & more important positives - then E-145 or CRJ-200 would be great (ie, no SJS here, but I know QoL is better in larger equipment, all other things being equal). Ultimate goal may or may not end up being AA (another legacy or an LCC/ULCC or even an ACMI could well end up being the primary objective), but I believe it’s wise to have the flow as insurance/backup (I’ve done the work to understand other regional options & what I’m giving up for the flow and WO’s are what make sense to us, all things considered).
Thanks in advance for any objective input you’re good enough to share.
10-30-2018, 02:48 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by fenix1
I’m trying to evaluate which WO is my best bet, all things considered and given my goals/situation, and I’d appreciate your objective thoughts toward that.
It’s important to me to live in base & at a base that’s as junior as possible for both FO’s & CA’s, but I have some flexibility on where we’ll live (biggest consideration is someplace where the cost of living is sane in a neighborhood that doesn’t require donning Kevlar to get mail); I currently live in the DFW area, but we have no ties here (other than my wife holding a decent - but not great - job) and we may well choose to move to ORD if we get on with ENY to live in a more junior base. I’ll be starting indoc at age 42. My goal is to fly as much as possible (while living in base) to get 1000 hours 121 ASAP to upgrade as soon as possible & build TPIC - I see the regionals as a means to an end. In a perfect world, I’d like to avoid 50-seat equipment (although don’t care whether I end up in CRJ-7/900 or E-175), but - if there’s enough overall & more important positives - then E-145 or CRJ-200 would be great (ie, no SJS here, but I know QoL is better in larger equipment, all other things being equal). Ultimate goal may or may not end up being AA (another legacy or an LCC/ULCC or even an ACMI could well end up being the primary objective), but I believe it’s wise to have the flow as insurance/backup (I’ve done the work to understand other regional options & what I’m giving up for the flow and WO’s are what make sense to us, all things considered).
Thanks in advance for any objective input you’re good enough to share.
It’s important to me to live in base & at a base that’s as junior as possible for both FO’s & CA’s, but I have some flexibility on where we’ll live (biggest consideration is someplace where the cost of living is sane in a neighborhood that doesn’t require donning Kevlar to get mail); I currently live in the DFW area, but we have no ties here (other than my wife holding a decent - but not great - job) and we may well choose to move to ORD if we get on with ENY to live in a more junior base. I’ll be starting indoc at age 42. My goal is to fly as much as possible (while living in base) to get 1000 hours 121 ASAP to upgrade as soon as possible & build TPIC - I see the regionals as a means to an end. In a perfect world, I’d like to avoid 50-seat equipment (although don’t care whether I end up in CRJ-7/900 or E-175), but - if there’s enough overall & more important positives - then E-145 or CRJ-200 would be great (ie, no SJS here, but I know QoL is better in larger equipment, all other things being equal). Ultimate goal may or may not end up being AA (another legacy or an LCC/ULCC or even an ACMI could well end up being the primary objective), but I believe it’s wise to have the flow as insurance/backup (I’ve done the work to understand other regional options & what I’m giving up for the flow and WO’s are what make sense to us, all things considered).
Thanks in advance for any objective input you’re good enough to share.
Each have their high points and flaws. If your goal is to move on, all three are upgrading as soon as you hit 1000 121. This is assuming you’re ready to upgrade at 1000, which honestly, not everybody is. So all three are basically equal in that regard.
I’m with PSA and I live in DFW as well and I commute to the east coast. Why? The SAP. Which for all the complaining that goes around, is GLORIOUS. I haven’t had less than 18 days off since I got off reserve, and got 21 days off out of 1 week of vacation. At it’s crux, I t’s really why I I chose PSA over the others. Ya people ***** and moan about reserve here, but this being my third regional, I’ll tell ya reserve kinda universally sucks everywhere you go. If you live in base, of if your have family you can mooch off of in base then it’s a bit more palatable. Nothing is more grating spending 6 days away from the wife and kids in a hotel or a crash pad and not fly, but it happens. That being said, seeing “SCHEDULING” pop up on your caller ID, sucks whether you live in base or not.
The flow: Meh. You have the right attitude about it. It’s nice to have in your back pocket if your career goes a sideways ( not that I’m encouraging an environment of moral hazard or anything). I’d encourage you to move on as soon as you’re qualified and competitive, and ask the same question again in the Majors Section in a few years.
Equipment: Bigger doesn’t necessarily equal better with respect to equipment. I fly 200 trips that yield 25 hours of credit. I mean im friggin BEAT by the end of 4 days, but they’re out there. There’s a million and one factors that go in to QOL. What I define as good QOL, might not fit in to what you define as good QOL. MY personal definition is schedule flexibility. I’ve never missed my wife’s birthday, our anniversary, Xmas, Turkey Day, 4 of July. I’m home so much my wife gets sick of me. I love it. Yours maybe efficient trip construction which is kinda lacking across all three WO’s.
So in summation they’re all kinda equal. They have their pluses. ENY has the shiny planes, they’re in DFW, but their schedules are kinda rough. PSA has the slightly less shiny plane, THE SAP, but the reserve rules and other contract goodies are lacking, and it has the slowest flow of all three. PDT has the poorer contract, from what I understand an acid relationship with management, non shiny 50 seaters, but the fastest flow. From a high level point of view, the good news about all three is that big daddy American is writing the checks, and trying to get all three on the same level. The bad news is that big daddy American is writing the checks so there’s little room for future contract improvements.
Hope this helps. PM me if you have more questions. ( No I’m not going to try to sell you on PSA, it’s just the place I happpen to know the most about)
10-30-2018, 03:04 AM
#3
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Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,012
PSA DAY checks all the boxes of junior, not unsafe, decent cost of living.
Short call reserve (Which is what you will be doing as a newly upgraded captain for quite a while) is easiest from home.
What about your wife’s job prospects? Will ORD or LGA provide enough better options to be worth the extra cost?
Short call reserve (Which is what you will be doing as a newly upgraded captain for quite a while) is easiest from home.
What about your wife’s job prospects? Will ORD or LGA provide enough better options to be worth the extra cost?
10-30-2018, 04:22 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 4,599
Originally Posted by ZeroTT
PSA DAY checks all the boxes of junior, not unsafe, decent cost of living.
Short call reserve (Which is what you will be doing as a newly upgraded captain for quite a while) is easiest from home.
What about your wife’s job prospects? Will ORD or LGA provide enough better options to be worth the extra cost?
Short call reserve (Which is what you will be doing as a newly upgraded captain for quite a while) is easiest from home.
What about your wife’s job prospects? Will ORD or LGA provide enough better options to be worth the extra cost?
10-30-2018, 11:34 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 227
Whichever is going to give you the shortest time on reserve and best cost of living. I think we might hold the winner of the three. PDT training is supposedly taking awhile and the cost of living in the tri-state area is miserable in regards to ENY (hence why I no longer live up there). You can take a chance on PSA with living in the midwest or VA. I'm in RIC and I can hit 4/7 bases either driving or one leg commute. Cost of living isn't terrible and some decent jobs between here and NoVA. My 2 pennies.
10-30-2018, 05:14 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to share all this and being receptive to a PM!
You mentioned PSA’s flow being slower than ENY or PDT and I’ve read that PSA is actually flowing more than the contractual obligation (by LOA, if I recall) so as to not hurt recruiting. Will PSA’s contractual flow agreements likely be increased in next Section 6 negotiations? Or will PSA always lag in flow for some reason?
You mentioned PSA’s flow being slower than ENY or PDT and I’ve read that PSA is actually flowing more than the contractual obligation (by LOA, if I recall) so as to not hurt recruiting. Will PSA’s contractual flow agreements likely be increased in next Section 6 negotiations? Or will PSA always lag in flow for some reason?
Originally Posted by Stratapilot
Ah this ol’ chestnut.
Each have their high points and flaws. If your goal is to move on, all three are upgrading as soon as you hit 1000 121. This is assuming you’re ready to upgrade at 1000, which honestly, not everybody is. So all three are basically equal in that regard.
I’m with PSA and I live in DFW as well and I commute to the east coast. Why? The SAP. Which for all the complaining that goes around, is GLORIOUS. I haven’t had less than 18 days off since I got off reserve, and got 21 days off out of 1 week of vacation. At it’s crux, I t’s really why I I chose PSA over the others. Ya people ***** and moan about reserve here, but this being my third regional, I’ll tell ya reserve kinda universally sucks everywhere you go. If you live in base, of if your have family you can mooch off of in base then it’s a bit more palatable. Nothing is more grating spending 6 days away from the wife and kids in a hotel or a crash pad and not fly, but it happens. That being said, seeing “SCHEDULING” pop up on your caller ID, sucks whether you live in base or not.
The flow: Meh. You have the right attitude about it. It’s nice to have in your back pocket if your career goes a sideways ( not that I’m encouraging an environment of moral hazard or anything). I’d encourage you to move on as soon as you’re qualified and competitive, and ask the same question again in the Majors Section in a few years.
Equipment: Bigger doesn’t necessarily equal better with respect to equipment. I fly 200 trips that yield 25 hours of credit. I mean im friggin BEAT by the end of 4 days, but they’re out there. There’s a million and one factors that go in to QOL. What I define as good QOL, might not fit in to what you define as good QOL. MY personal definition is schedule flexibility. I’ve never missed my wife’s birthday, our anniversary, Xmas, Turkey Day, 4 of July. I’m home so much my wife gets sick of me. I love it. Yours maybe efficient trip construction which is kinda lacking across all three WO’s.
So in summation they’re all kinda equal. They have their pluses. ENY has the shiny planes, they’re in DFW, but their schedules are kinda rough. PSA has the slightly less shiny plane, THE SAP, but the reserve rules and other contract goodies are lacking, and it has the slowest flow of all three. PDT has the poorer contract, from what I understand an acid relationship with management, non shiny 50 seaters, but the fastest flow. From a high level point of view, the good news about all three is that big daddy American is writing the checks, and trying to get all three on the same level. The bad news is that big daddy American is writing the checks so there’s little room for future contract improvements.
Hope this helps. PM me if you have more questions. ( No I’m not going to try to sell you on PSA, it’s just the place I happpen to know the most about)
Each have their high points and flaws. If your goal is to move on, all three are upgrading as soon as you hit 1000 121. This is assuming you’re ready to upgrade at 1000, which honestly, not everybody is. So all three are basically equal in that regard.
I’m with PSA and I live in DFW as well and I commute to the east coast. Why? The SAP. Which for all the complaining that goes around, is GLORIOUS. I haven’t had less than 18 days off since I got off reserve, and got 21 days off out of 1 week of vacation. At it’s crux, I t’s really why I I chose PSA over the others. Ya people ***** and moan about reserve here, but this being my third regional, I’ll tell ya reserve kinda universally sucks everywhere you go. If you live in base, of if your have family you can mooch off of in base then it’s a bit more palatable. Nothing is more grating spending 6 days away from the wife and kids in a hotel or a crash pad and not fly, but it happens. That being said, seeing “SCHEDULING” pop up on your caller ID, sucks whether you live in base or not.
The flow: Meh. You have the right attitude about it. It’s nice to have in your back pocket if your career goes a sideways ( not that I’m encouraging an environment of moral hazard or anything). I’d encourage you to move on as soon as you’re qualified and competitive, and ask the same question again in the Majors Section in a few years.
Equipment: Bigger doesn’t necessarily equal better with respect to equipment. I fly 200 trips that yield 25 hours of credit. I mean im friggin BEAT by the end of 4 days, but they’re out there. There’s a million and one factors that go in to QOL. What I define as good QOL, might not fit in to what you define as good QOL. MY personal definition is schedule flexibility. I’ve never missed my wife’s birthday, our anniversary, Xmas, Turkey Day, 4 of July. I’m home so much my wife gets sick of me. I love it. Yours maybe efficient trip construction which is kinda lacking across all three WO’s.
So in summation they’re all kinda equal. They have their pluses. ENY has the shiny planes, they’re in DFW, but their schedules are kinda rough. PSA has the slightly less shiny plane, THE SAP, but the reserve rules and other contract goodies are lacking, and it has the slowest flow of all three. PDT has the poorer contract, from what I understand an acid relationship with management, non shiny 50 seaters, but the fastest flow. From a high level point of view, the good news about all three is that big daddy American is writing the checks, and trying to get all three on the same level. The bad news is that big daddy American is writing the checks so there’s little room for future contract improvements.
Hope this helps. PM me if you have more questions. ( No I’m not going to try to sell you on PSA, it’s just the place I happpen to know the most about)
10-30-2018, 05:22 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Multiple PSA bases appear to align with exactly what I’m/we’re looking for - jr for FO’s, jr for CA’s & can live cheap but safe.
Is there any benefit to being based in DAY (since that’s the head shed) as far opportunities to get involved in training, union work, etc?
Is there any benefit to being based in DAY (since that’s the head shed) as far opportunities to get involved in training, union work, etc?
Originally Posted by ZeroTT
DAY isn't going anywhere. ORF is new and TYS has disgorged all its longtimers.
10-30-2018, 05:31 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Absolutely and that’s certainly a big part of the desire to live in base!
We have no desire to live in the greater NYC area (never say never but 180 degrees away from being desired for us), but ORD looks like it’d work out ok for us. My wife’s not entirely sure what she wants to do professionally going forward, but - in her current line of work - it’s unlikely that NYC (LGA) would increase her pay enough to have it check-out against cost of living. ORD looks to be more manageable than NYC.
Thanks a lot for your help & thoughts!
We have no desire to live in the greater NYC area (never say never but 180 degrees away from being desired for us), but ORD looks like it’d work out ok for us. My wife’s not entirely sure what she wants to do professionally going forward, but - in her current line of work - it’s unlikely that NYC (LGA) would increase her pay enough to have it check-out against cost of living. ORD looks to be more manageable than NYC.
Thanks a lot for your help & thoughts!
Originally Posted by ZeroTT
PSA DAY checks all the boxes of junior, not unsafe, decent cost of living.
Short call reserve (Which is what you will be doing as a newly upgraded captain for quite a while) is easiest from home.
What about your wife’s job prospects? Will ORD or LGA provide enough better options to be worth the extra cost?
Short call reserve (Which is what you will be doing as a newly upgraded captain for quite a while) is easiest from home.
What about your wife’s job prospects? Will ORD or LGA provide enough better options to be worth the extra cost?
10-30-2018, 05:34 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
For the reasons you mentioned, PSA seems to set up well in many ways that are important to us - that’s a big win that 4/7 bases are that accessible for you!
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for your help.
Originally Posted by Jecain7
Whichever is going to give you the shortest time on reserve and best cost of living. I think we might hold the winner of the three. PDT training is supposedly taking awhile and the cost of living in the tri-state area is miserable in regards to ENY (hence why I no longer live up there). You can take a chance on PSA with living in the midwest or VA. I'm in RIC and I can hit 4/7 bases either driving or one leg commute. Cost of living isn't terrible and some decent jobs between here and NoVA. My 2 pennies.
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