EVpilot

I thought it was interesting because when it comes to mishaps, any break in sterile cockpit will be cited as a factor. The only defense is to zip it from push back to 10 and from 10 until your in. It really is not that long.

nordo

The sterile to/from 10K rule does make a lot of sense, especially when operating in places like JFK/LGA and ORD where the traffic is heavy and the controllers are overworked (NE corridor). How can you maintain SA when you are yakking about something that's not relevant to the job at hand (flying), and guarantee an event-free take-off/climb out a safe approach and landing? Remember the old rule, "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate", seems appropriate to apply that to take-off/landing evolutions.

The CO rule about "no-fault" go-arounds is a good one. I learned to fly courtesy of Uncle Sam's Yacht Club, and we were never unduly harassed for exercising our judgement about going-around (waving off). At the boat, you would get a little bit of ****** from the LSOs for an OWO (Own Wave Off) or TWO (Technique Wave Off) but it was better to take the miss than hit the round-down. In AirlineManagementLand taking a go-around and (1) burning extra gas and (2) missing that wondrous A-14 number and possibly a subsequent D-0 is grounds for crucifixion and a carpet dance for the DO or Chief Pilot.

Because heaven knows it's not all about safety when there's Benjamins at stake.

seafeye

I have never ever been asked about a go-around or anything like that from management. But i will say that they really don't like Return to Fields.
Airways is bent out on being on time and they are missing the whole reason we fly. Our job is to take grandma from A to B. If i have to leave 3 minutes late so she can make the flight then so be it. Of course it's never up to the pilots.

RedBaron007

I think this whole thread is jumping the gun a bit, just as the article was. Let's see what the NTSB report has to say. That being said...what if they moved the flaps UP during the reject to dump lift off the wings and onto the wheels? What if the reporter didn't understand the importance such a maneuver could have? Just throwing it out there, but I'd like to not hang the crew until the final report is in.

IrishTiger

I agree, but I just wanted to make myself clear I wasn't trying to quarterback or blame them. I find technical things interesting, and was just wanting to know some possibilities. I try not to judge flight crews until we know the facts, and even then, the CVR and FDR can only tell so much. We still weren't there.

jayray

It is dubious that someone would be thinking about bringing up the flaps so the brakes work better on a high speed abort. I doubt they even managed to get the spoilers out. Since they overran is it safe to assume they started the abort above V1?

seafeye

Didn't you learn anything in Private Pilot School?
All performance figures are based on a new airplane, new brakes, new tires, a crew knowing ahead of time about an abort etc...
Just because the paperwork says it can be done doesn't make it so.

dojetdriver

You can argue that DAL had no cockpit discipline either. Failure to verify the runway. Even when it's dark, you're gonna see piano keys/TDZM's before you touch down. Depending on who you talk to, or those "in the know", the situation was dealt with way before landing.

winglet

com·pla·cen·cy

1 : self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies

winglet

Yzerman

Not that long unless it takes multiple hours to taxi, de-ice, get numbers, and take off...
Then the 30 mile final at 160, taxi, wait for a gate, wait for rampers, wait for gate agent, wait for the knock at the door because the rampers left while you're waiting for the gate agent...

But I know what you mean.

We are trained to handle an engine exploding on the go-around, but a somewhat non-pertinent comment while taxiing with nobody else within a mile on a clear and sunny day could CAUSE A FRIGGIN CATASTROPHE!!!! OMG ZERO TOLERANCE!!!

Ok I'm done.