PSA CRJ 200 in CRW
02-10-2010 | 12:58 PM
#21
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From: CRJ
That's kind of the same concept that JetPipeOvht said. But would moving the flaps between 8-20 give you a warning message? Both are allowable settings for takeoff. I don't know what it would do, but I would imagine it wouldn't freak out and start chiming if you moved it from 8 to 20 or vice versa. I've never contemplated actually doing that so I've never even thought about it. ha. Whenever I think of a wrong flap setting, I think of that poor Delta flight in Dallas. The flaps and trims are one of those things I try to triple check before we takeoff.
02-10-2010 | 01:03 PM
#22
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It it was not for the EMAS, there is a good chance that CRJ would have dove right off that cliff and everyone would have died. They NTSB would have pulled the CVR and it would have shown 1) Crew not following sterile cockpit procedures, 2) Crew not following SOP and 3) Poor CRM and decision making by the crew. Who knows what would have been found when they researched training records, comuting schedules, past check rides etc..
In short, this could have been another 3407 if not for the EMAS system. The media and public would have came down on PSA and every PSA pilot would become the new "problem" with the industry. 3407 was horrible, let this example with PSA show how easily your airline can be next featured on a PBS special.
In short, this could have been another 3407 if not for the EMAS system. The media and public would have came down on PSA and every PSA pilot would become the new "problem" with the industry. 3407 was horrible, let this example with PSA show how easily your airline can be next featured on a PBS special.
02-10-2010 | 01:31 PM
#23
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Meyers you missed his point. He wasn't comparing PSA to Colgan. He said that if it weren't for the EMAS there would have been another public outcry as to the experience of regional pilots and PSA would be the target since it was their crew/plane.
02-10-2010 | 01:42 PM
#24
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From: CRJ
Dont even begin comparing PSA and Colgan. Totally different in general. PSA is and does have oversight from Mainline. PSA also has training very similiar to mainline and thus checklist etc are very similar. Even as of recently Mainline is trying to find a way to make their checklist shorter and wanted to do the same as PSA to keep things similar..... Further more there has never been an issue of safety at PSA as there has been at Colgan. The training department does a great number of jumpseats and line checks. They did this before 3407 and continue to do so.... So before you start spouting off on something you know NOTHING about, get some facts straight...... Like how mainline and PSA/PDT use the same ways in which to identify possible safety issues... Also keep in mind we have pleanty of 20 year Captains at PSA.... You have know clue how long the Captain that day has been here, now do you 
!
Further more the Captain for sure has a clean record... You would find nothing even close to that of Colgan 3407 with this crew. He (the Captain) also at some point was in a higher role then just a regular Captain.... Very respected man around here.... Unfortunate that this had to happen to him..... The FO as well, has been here for a longer period of time. It was not someone who was just barely wet behind the ears.....
And lastly, you give three items above... Of which you have ZERO factual information to back it up. So until you have proof stop spouting off like an ignorant fool......
!Further more the Captain for sure has a clean record... You would find nothing even close to that of Colgan 3407 with this crew. He (the Captain) also at some point was in a higher role then just a regular Captain.... Very respected man around here.... Unfortunate that this had to happen to him..... The FO as well, has been here for a longer period of time. It was not someone who was just barely wet behind the ears.....
And lastly, you give three items above... Of which you have ZERO factual information to back it up. So until you have proof stop spouting off like an ignorant fool......
Exactly. Meyers went on a big long rant and talked a lot but said nothing of value.
Who cares if the captain is highly respected there. Who cares if the FO had thousands of hours in the crj. Who cares about any of that. Sterile cockpit was broken. And if it was broken that day I would be willing to bet dollars to krispykremes (although they are about the same price now) that he has been breaking sterile cockpit since day 1. Only difference is he had an incident that day and was caught breaking regulations. I see a lot of similarities between this incident and the colgan accident.
1. Idle chatter not related to the flight at hand.
2. Inattention to airplane configuration.
3. Poor decision making.
4. Loss of situational awareness.
5. Lack of CRM
6. Not following FOM or CFM guidelines.
PSA got lucky. Colgan was not.
02-10-2010 | 02:13 PM
#25
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From: Hot tub for now
Not talking below 10,000 isn't going to make flying that much safer.
People get distracted for a number of reasons. Sometimes i wish something would be said to break up the silence. After 6 legs, short overnight, communicating with the other person is a good way to tell they are awake.
A real company will find out why a person misses a step on the checklist. Not just some blanket statement that some sterile rule was broken. It's never that simple. Accidents are always a chain of events. We weren't there so we won't know 100%.
After doing a 4 day consisting of 20 legs, things blend into eachother.
Did we do a taxi check? How about before takeoff?
How about....Were we cleared to land? I heard it 6 times today but was that 2 hours ago or 2 minutes?
I'm not making excuses but you have to realize 100% of the pilots break the sterile rule and 100% of the pilot have broken an FAR and 100% of the pilots have made a mistake. Just hope you aren't in an airplane that has an accident at the same time. The FAA is on the side of the CEO's.
People get distracted for a number of reasons. Sometimes i wish something would be said to break up the silence. After 6 legs, short overnight, communicating with the other person is a good way to tell they are awake.
A real company will find out why a person misses a step on the checklist. Not just some blanket statement that some sterile rule was broken. It's never that simple. Accidents are always a chain of events. We weren't there so we won't know 100%.
After doing a 4 day consisting of 20 legs, things blend into eachother.
Did we do a taxi check? How about before takeoff?
How about....Were we cleared to land? I heard it 6 times today but was that 2 hours ago or 2 minutes?
I'm not making excuses but you have to realize 100% of the pilots break the sterile rule and 100% of the pilot have broken an FAR and 100% of the pilots have made a mistake. Just hope you aren't in an airplane that has an accident at the same time. The FAA is on the side of the CEO's.
02-10-2010 | 02:17 PM
#26
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You pretty much summed up what I was trying to say. Glad you and others understood it while others chose to become defensive.
02-10-2010 | 02:21 PM
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You continue to speculate.... Your previous thread pointed out three SPECULATIONS. You have zero evidence to back such speculation up now do you? Were you there? Do you believe everything that is leaked to the media? Yet you continued to post. Any airlines could be the next Colgan 3407 if we are going to act like pilots do not talk below 10,000' or to think pilots do not chatter while in line on a taxi out..... To point out such items as the cause behind the PSA accident is simply ignorant.... What would you call it?
02-10-2010 | 02:25 PM
#28
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From: CL-65 captain
You continue to speculate.... Your previous thread pointed out three SPECULATIONS. You have zero evidence to back such speculation up now do you? Were you there? Do you believe everything that is leaked to the media? Yet you continued to post. Any airlines could be the next Colgan 3407 if we are going to act like pilots do not talk below 10,000' or to think pilots do not chatter while in line on a taxi out..... To point out such items as the cause behind the PSA accident is simply ignorant.... What would you call it?
02-10-2010 | 02:32 PM
#29
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You continue to speculate.... Your previous thread pointed out three SPECULATIONS. You have zero evidence to back such speculation up now do you? Were you there? Do you believe everything that is leaked to the media? Yet you continued to post. Any airlines could be the next Colgan 3407 if we are going to act like pilots do not talk below 10,000' or to think pilots do not chatter while in line on a taxi out..... To point out such items as the cause behind the PSA accident is simply ignorant.... What would you call it?
The WSJ, more importantly, Andy Pasztor is very good in his reporting. He was very accurate in the 3407 and all of his articles were backed up with facts.
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