Apprentice job without a good way out.

 

The discussion misses the Big Picture!

THERE IS A HUGE SHORTAGE OF QUALIFIED PEOPLE IN EVERY PROFESSION!

1. I am willing to pay a licensed medical doctor $36.50 for each hour he actually sees a patient, door closed to door open, with a guarantee pay of 74 hours a month. With overtime, pay will often be for over 100 hours a month.

2. I am willing to pay a licensed attorney $36.50 also on the same terms.

3. I also need an accountant, familiar with Missouri, Florida, and Illinois tax law, also on the same terms.

4. Finally, I have an opening for a cleaning person, same salary. Guarantee of 4 hours for each day worked provided the first day begins before noon and the last day ends after 5 pm. (See Gojet Contract).

Each will probably begin in San Francisco but can expect to work out of Chicago, Denver, or New York after about 6 months.

I do not have enough qualified applicants for any of these professions and believe that the Federal Government needs to either subsidize the education of these people to come into these professions, subsidize their pay, or allow me to bring in foreign workers who are willing to do these vital jobs that Americans just don't want to do.

Eighteen months ago I was only offering $23 per hour. A 50% increase in salary has done nothing to bring in new applicants. Within 3 years, medical offices and law firms like mine will begin to close and will not be able to serve the needs of the poorest members of our society needing medical and legal services.

 

The passengers sure don't consider a 76 seat airliner to be entry level/apprentice. Neither do the marketing folks. Neither does the FAA. "Regionals" need to be and are held to the same safety standards as "real" airlines.

The industry's do called "pilot shortage" is self-induced. I have no sympathy for this industry.

 

It's a shame Bernie didn't get elected. Free flight training for everyone!!

 

Are you in management? Why do you always defend low pay for the regionals? Your posts seem to protect the regional airlines is there a reason for this?

 

Well you need to look at the training for each of those positions. Why would someone go through the years of training to work for low pay? A hairdresser makes $115 in 1.5 hours, a tattoo artist makes over $100/hr both of those are only months in training.

Jobs that takes years of training AND jobs where people's lives are at stake need to have pay that reflects the responsibility.

If pay is to go up supply of pilots must go down, same with Doctors, Firefighters, Nurses, Police officers. It's time to pay those that have lives in their hands.

Supply vs Demand Econ 101

 

Ehhhhh..... why is there always this comparison to doctors and lawyers on this site when pay comes up. First, doctors -- do you realize that a lot of doctors make like 50k as residents, for several years? Yes, they clear well over six figures eventually, but look at how much school they did... Many regionals pay more than resident wages now for FOs. And do you realize that MOST attorneys make well under 100k for their first several years? 120k-160k is starting at the biggest firms, yes -- but do you have any idea how many hours of work that is, and how that's just a small percentage of attorneys, often the highest-performing and/or those who choose to "sell their soul," if you will, to work 70, 80 hours per week? Most attorneys at mid-level firms or the government make 60k-80k, at best. Those are the "market wages" for those professions, each of which require 7+ years of college, post-grad, etc.

Now for us pilots: First, no degree required. We can start with no experience and become a licensed pilot in under a year (see, e.g., ATP flight school, etc.). Yes, many of us had to flight instruct, but with a little effort even CFIs are clearing 40k+ these days. Then to a regional, making 50k+, and far more if you work some OT and work somewhere with higher pay/retention bonuses/etc. After a few years, you can clear 100k+ as a Captain. Again, all without a college degree, if you so choose. Now of course a degree is a wise move for moving on to the majors. And of course flying is a unique skill. And of course the market should pay us what we're worth. But right now, the market seems to say we're worth 50k-60k or so first year. I wish it were more. But I live comfortably, and I waited to enter the profession until pay was livable. I don't know how guys did it at 25k, I really don't. Indeed lots of guys took on debt, and maybe there should be government programs to keep interest rates low. I have no issue with that. But just because Pilot A takes on 80k for flight training doesn't mean he should require a 100k starting salary. The average lawyer has well over 80k in debt, and the typical new graduate lawyer makes nowhere near 100k.

The pilot group tends to be more conservative -- as do I in many ways. Yet we seem to ignore the "personal responsibility" aspect here. Some of us did the military and had GI Bill to help with our flight training costs. Some of us took out loans through a university/federal government or a bank, or something like Pilot Finance. If we did that knowing our salary would be 25k, well...... that was a choice we made. If we do that now knowing the payoff is 50k starting, that's another, maybe better, personal choice.

Let's take teachers -- 4-year degree required. They go to a state school, spend 10k per year plus living expense debt, and then make 35k, with slow raises each year. That's simply what the market pays. I wish they made more, but it was no secret when they entered the profession. Less debt than the average pilot, less income. Just a comparison.

 

Sorry for the reposts, but this is too important to get buried in pages of chatter.

We have to beat them at their own game. Crying on the forum only goes so far. Time to take action. Main feedback email: [email protected] and the general email is [email protected]

 

Does this guy really care about rural service frequency? What is his actual motivation?
Seems like it's avoiding paying higher wages, which coincidentally will solve the problem.
Until year 1 is 60k in the contract, or guys get 1 year of pay longevity for each year they've been typed and current in a jet then there is experienced labor out there that is refusing your abismale Rj pay scale.

The guy in the left seat clears 130k from the contract, and they guy in the right seat can't clear 60k without a temporary bonus. There is no reason a right seat pilot can't make 60k through ordinary wages. It's not a Beech 1900 anymore.

 

Emailed with a unique narrative.