Hats off to Skyhigh
03-21-2007 | 09:01 PM
#62
Freightmama!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,880
Likes: 0
From: 757/767 FO
The reason a cop career is so much better is the fact that they do not need a college degree or flight training (save 150K), have a stable career and they get a full ride retirement. By the time a pilot is ready to apply to a major cops are getting ready to retire.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
03-21-2007 | 09:08 PM
#63
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Shot cops
police officers do get shot on occasion but from my peer group I have lost three good pilot friends to crashes and they didn't get a parade, benefits for their families or news reporters either. They just died and no one cared.
It is much more risky to be a pilot.
SkyHigh
It is much more risky to be a pilot.
SkyHigh
03-21-2007 | 09:10 PM
#64
Freightmama!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,880
Likes: 0
From: 757/767 FO
police officers do get shot on occasion but from my peer group I have lost three good pilot friends to crashes and they didn't get a parade, benefits for their families or news reporters either. They just died and no one cared.
It is much more risky to be a pilot.
SkyHigh
It is much more risky to be a pilot.
SkyHigh
03-21-2007 | 10:57 PM
#67
New boss = Old boss
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,763
Likes: 1
From: Ca B737
Thank you Uncle Bose for coming up with the list of cars over 200K. Now that we have established that HotMama is out of touch, can we discount her posts?
As for regional pilots never making 200k, I think I agree, at least not in today's dollars. Regional (what a misnomer) pilot will always be a stepping stone as long as there is a great disparity in pay between them and the large well paying airlines. Guys like JO know there is a large supply of young pilots willing to prostitute themselves in order to get the plum jobs. Just as I did, young (read inexperienced) pilots will always be willing to fly for nothing in order to become competitive.
All that will change IF (big IF) a severe pilot shortage develops. In that case the majors (please don't argue that CommAir et. all is a major. You get my point.) will raise the pay and benefits to attract enough warm bodies to fill the seat. Pay at the smaller airlines will go up too but the small jets just don't make enough per flight to make it possible to match the pay of the larger aircraft operators. Only the lamest or least ambitious pilots will stay at their regional. Many smaller airlines will fail and JO will retire a very rich man. The average number of seats per flight will go up again and I will, once again, make 200k/yr.
Or, maybe not. As I so often say, time will tell. I for one believe there will be a shortage of pilots. (I think it has already begun) and I HAVE to believe the scenario will play out somewhat like I have illustrated above. (to remain sane). I am too old to start over. Unknowns are: Will the airlines continue to drop the qualifications of new hires to high school only? Will drones become a reality? (Wouldn't it be ironic if cargo aircraft are the first to fly pilot-less and the UPS FedEx guys are the first to lose?) Will there be another terrorist attack? Will jet A become cost prohibitive? Will the airlines be nationalised?
Well my post has spun out of control. To make my plans work, I need at least 200k/yr. My airline used to pay that and I believe it will again and more. You guys making much less will come to realise how little 100k is in time. My hope is that you will fight tooth and nail to raise the bar. As long as dickwads like JO are millionaires, I'm not being paid enough.
As for regional pilots never making 200k, I think I agree, at least not in today's dollars. Regional (what a misnomer) pilot will always be a stepping stone as long as there is a great disparity in pay between them and the large well paying airlines. Guys like JO know there is a large supply of young pilots willing to prostitute themselves in order to get the plum jobs. Just as I did, young (read inexperienced) pilots will always be willing to fly for nothing in order to become competitive.
All that will change IF (big IF) a severe pilot shortage develops. In that case the majors (please don't argue that CommAir et. all is a major. You get my point.) will raise the pay and benefits to attract enough warm bodies to fill the seat. Pay at the smaller airlines will go up too but the small jets just don't make enough per flight to make it possible to match the pay of the larger aircraft operators. Only the lamest or least ambitious pilots will stay at their regional. Many smaller airlines will fail and JO will retire a very rich man. The average number of seats per flight will go up again and I will, once again, make 200k/yr.
Or, maybe not. As I so often say, time will tell. I for one believe there will be a shortage of pilots. (I think it has already begun) and I HAVE to believe the scenario will play out somewhat like I have illustrated above. (to remain sane). I am too old to start over. Unknowns are: Will the airlines continue to drop the qualifications of new hires to high school only? Will drones become a reality? (Wouldn't it be ironic if cargo aircraft are the first to fly pilot-less and the UPS FedEx guys are the first to lose?) Will there be another terrorist attack? Will jet A become cost prohibitive? Will the airlines be nationalised?
Well my post has spun out of control. To make my plans work, I need at least 200k/yr. My airline used to pay that and I believe it will again and more. You guys making much less will come to realise how little 100k is in time. My hope is that you will fight tooth and nail to raise the bar. As long as dickwads like JO are millionaires, I'm not being paid enough.
03-22-2007 | 05:03 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,349
Likes: 0
From: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
Bottom line: you will get no more than the market will bear. You won't even get that if you don't fight for it. . . . .
The only answer is a nationwide union with a nationwide seniority list. That's not likely, but I wish you well in establishing one. Otherwise, the various pilot groups are pawns that will be played against each other. . . .
The only answer is a nationwide union with a nationwide seniority list. That's not likely, but I wish you well in establishing one. Otherwise, the various pilot groups are pawns that will be played against each other. . . .
National seniority list - I like to hear more comments (less flame) about this idea.
One critical industry consideration with regional expansion is the growing difference between a Regional Captain's pay and new hire Major/Legacy FO pay. If the difference becomes SIGNIFICANT (due to rising pay in the regionals) their could be a number of Regional pilots who are "satisfied" with their QOL and stay right where they are.
Then the majors would have to lower their hiring standards.
03-22-2007 | 05:49 AM
#69
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
[B]
When they advertise LE jobs and they talk about "top step" or "top payscale". They are talking about the top you can make as a Deputy or Officer without ever promoting. It usually takes about 6 to 8 years to make top step. However it is also not uncommon to have promoted to the next higher rank in about 8 years.
I have worked at a SoCal Sheriff's Dept. as a Corrections Officer for the last eight years. So my experience is based on facts, not hersay from a cousins-brothers-best-friends-ex-husband that knows a cop that retired at 40, making 100k in retirement. etc. I have never seen one person retire under 53 years old (there was one, but he won 9 mil in the Lotto). The average is probably more like 55 to 56. That is sooner then at an airline for sure. But that is also with 30+ years of service. If you are a career changer coming in to LE at 30-35, you are definetly going to work into your 60's.
It takes more then just a great pay check to stay in LE for 30+ years. Just like it takes more then just a pay check to get people to fly. Don't talk about cost of training, education etc. People know the rules when the get into flying. Just like people know the rules when they get into Law Enforcement. If they think either one is all roses, they are just kidding themselves.
The Top Step Officer is the top of the payscale. They are probably in charge of the patrol unit, I would think the ranking would be somewhere around atleast a Lieutenant, but I'm not sure as it all depends on size of the Police Department. The bigger the department the more Sargeants and Lieutenants make, but the harder it is to become one.
Most Police Departments are willing to recruit officers from other Departments, because they already got through the Academy, so there is no chance of them dropping/failing out of training, since they went through the training.
Most Police Departments are willing to recruit officers from other Departments, because they already got through the Academy, so there is no chance of them dropping/failing out of training, since they went through the training.
It is because they are all ready retired by 48 and now are working a second career.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
It takes more then just a great pay check to stay in LE for 30+ years. Just like it takes more then just a pay check to get people to fly. Don't talk about cost of training, education etc. People know the rules when the get into flying. Just like people know the rules when they get into Law Enforcement. If they think either one is all roses, they are just kidding themselves.
03-22-2007 | 06:40 AM
#70
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Free Market
LCC and now ULCC
So long as Allegiant can pay its pilots so little and get away with it the rest will slowly sink to match. The legacies are being replaced by undercutting non-union Mesa wannabes. They are forced to match or die. Just yesterday UAL announced that they intend to cut another 400 Million from their annual operating budget.
The next wave is the Ultra Low Cost Carriers. I am sure that VA has its eye on a maximum Captain pay of 65K or so. Our country has already maxed out on capacity so we will require no more pilots than we already have now. If there is a pilot shortage it will be overseas.
Until the day comes that Alaska Airlines gives me a call there will never be a pilot shortage in the USA. My resume is not so great but six years ago their minimums were much much lower. The jobs will be overseas.
SkyHigh
So long as Allegiant can pay its pilots so little and get away with it the rest will slowly sink to match. The legacies are being replaced by undercutting non-union Mesa wannabes. They are forced to match or die. Just yesterday UAL announced that they intend to cut another 400 Million from their annual operating budget.
The next wave is the Ultra Low Cost Carriers. I am sure that VA has its eye on a maximum Captain pay of 65K or so. Our country has already maxed out on capacity so we will require no more pilots than we already have now. If there is a pilot shortage it will be overseas.
Until the day comes that Alaska Airlines gives me a call there will never be a pilot shortage in the USA. My resume is not so great but six years ago their minimums were much much lower. The jobs will be overseas.
SkyHigh
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