Hats off to Skyhigh
03-22-2007 | 06:43 AM
#71
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Police
[B]
When they advertise LE jobs and they talk about "top step" or "top payscale". They are talking about the top you can make as a Deputy or Officer without ever promoting. It usually takes about 6 to 8 years to make top step. However it is also not uncommon to have promoted to the next higher rank in about 8 years.
I have worked at a SoCal Sheriff's Dept. as a Corrections Officer for the last eight years. So my experience is based on facts, not hersay from a cousins-brothers-best-friends-ex-husband that knows a cop that retired at 40, making 100k in retirement. etc. I have never seen one person retire under 53 years old (there was one, but he won 9 mil in the Lotto). The average is probably more like 55 to 56. That is sooner then at an airline for sure. But that is also with 30+ years of service. If you are a career changer coming in to LE at 30-35, you are definetly going to work into your 60's.
It takes more then just a great pay check to stay in LE for 30+ years. Just like it takes more then just a pay check to get people to fly. Don't talk about cost of training, education etc. People know the rules when the get into flying. Just like people know the rules when they get into Law Enforcement. If they think either one is all roses, they are just kidding themselves.
When they advertise LE jobs and they talk about "top step" or "top payscale". They are talking about the top you can make as a Deputy or Officer without ever promoting. It usually takes about 6 to 8 years to make top step. However it is also not uncommon to have promoted to the next higher rank in about 8 years.
I have worked at a SoCal Sheriff's Dept. as a Corrections Officer for the last eight years. So my experience is based on facts, not hersay from a cousins-brothers-best-friends-ex-husband that knows a cop that retired at 40, making 100k in retirement. etc. I have never seen one person retire under 53 years old (there was one, but he won 9 mil in the Lotto). The average is probably more like 55 to 56. That is sooner then at an airline for sure. But that is also with 30+ years of service. If you are a career changer coming in to LE at 30-35, you are definetly going to work into your 60's.
It takes more then just a great pay check to stay in LE for 30+ years. Just like it takes more then just a pay check to get people to fly. Don't talk about cost of training, education etc. People know the rules when the get into flying. Just like people know the rules when they get into Law Enforcement. If they think either one is all roses, they are just kidding themselves.
Besides pilots don't need a paycheck to fly. My first one at Horizon Air looked more like a bill.
SkyHigh
03-22-2007 | 07:31 AM
#72
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 47
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I can fully apreciate where you come from letting people know about the pit falls that lie in aviation. However you cannot discount all the people that have made it. Do more people quit before they make it? Maybe. Do you make it with out ever trying? Not a chance.
You tried, and flying didn't live up to its end of the bargin (for you). But you would have never known had you not taken that chance. At least be honest with people and admit that. Better to have loved and lost, then to have never loved all.
03-22-2007 | 07:40 AM
#73
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
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From: Corporate Pilot
Future
Sky, your pool of friends in flying must be limited to the ones that never made it. I personally know 5 that have retired in the last 3 years. Not one is working another job. So I am not sure what you define as retirement, but they seam to be doing well. All have homes and one or more: hangars, airplanes, second homes, motorhomes etc.
I can fully apreciate where you come from letting people know about the pit falls that lie in aviation. However you cannot discount all the people that have made it. Do more people quit before they make it? Maybe. Do you make it with out ever trying? Not a chance.
You tried, and flying didn't live up to its end of the bargin (for you). But you would have never known had you not taken that chance. At least be honest with people and admit that. Better to have loved and lost, then to have never loved all.
I can fully apreciate where you come from letting people know about the pit falls that lie in aviation. However you cannot discount all the people that have made it. Do more people quit before they make it? Maybe. Do you make it with out ever trying? Not a chance.
You tried, and flying didn't live up to its end of the bargin (for you). But you would have never known had you not taken that chance. At least be honest with people and admit that. Better to have loved and lost, then to have never loved all.
Had I had a SkyHigh to lay out the future of aviation for me then I would not have spent dollar one on flight training. We all love to fly but first of all I needed a job. My dream was to build a rewarding career to base a full life upon. Aviation has descended into more of an American Idol show. One or two might make it but majority will not after blowing 15 years in line and perhaps as much as 200K in education and training expenses.
Flying isn't a career anymore but a 200K Hail Mary. I never would have invested myself into such a folly.
SkyHigh
03-22-2007 | 08:04 AM
#74
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 47
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Sure, pilots who worked for the last 30 years are able to retire. The current generation will have little to nothing to retire on. A 401K is no match for a full ride retirement program and those days are now gone.
Had I had a SkyHigh to lay out the future of aviation for me then I would not have spent dollar one on flight training. We all love to fly but first of all I needed a job. My dream was to build a rewarding career to base a full life upon. Aviation has descended into more of an American Idol show. One or two might make it but majority will not after blowing 15 years in line and perhaps as much as 200K in education and training expenses.
Flying isn't a career anymore but a 200K Hail Mary. I never would have invested myself into such a folly.
SkyHigh
Had I had a SkyHigh to lay out the future of aviation for me then I would not have spent dollar one on flight training. We all love to fly but first of all I needed a job. My dream was to build a rewarding career to base a full life upon. Aviation has descended into more of an American Idol show. One or two might make it but majority will not after blowing 15 years in line and perhaps as much as 200K in education and training expenses.
Flying isn't a career anymore but a 200K Hail Mary. I never would have invested myself into such a folly.
SkyHigh
I think we deserve a touch more credit then an "American Idol" type career.
You say you love to fly, yet you have a perfectly good airplane sitting un-flown. If you loved to fly then then the love should out weigh the bitterness of not having a flying career. If that's not the case then don't claim you love to fly. I have an ex-wife, I am not bitter, but we do not love each other, so I don't go around saying I do when I really don't. You have every right to say your bitter about loosing flying in your life. Don't say you still love it, When we both know that's not the case.
03-22-2007 | 08:14 AM
#75
New boss = Old boss
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,763
Likes: 1
From: Ca B737
Come on Sky. We don't know who you are. How much do you make these days? I'd be interested to know if you can make 200k in your line of work. If you don't, why not? What would you need to make that much. The guys I have seen do contracting around my house must be making well over 100k based on how much they want for one days work. I had a tree guy come over and want $1400 to fell one tree! I passed but he was busy! Who pays that?
03-22-2007 | 08:19 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
From: Former EMB 120 Jr. Water Boy, CRJ newbee
Sure, pilots who worked for the last 30 years are able to retire. The current generation will have little to nothing to retire on. A 401K is no match for a full ride retirement program and those days are now gone.
Had I had a SkyHigh to lay out the future of aviation for me then I would not have spent dollar one on flight training. We all love to fly but first of all I needed a job. My dream was to build a rewarding career to base a full life upon. Aviation has descended into more of an American Idol show. One or two might make it but majority will not after blowing 15 years in line and perhaps as much as 200K in education and training expenses.
Flying isn't a career anymore but a 200K Hail Mary. I never would have invested myself into such a folly.
SkyHigh
Had I had a SkyHigh to lay out the future of aviation for me then I would not have spent dollar one on flight training. We all love to fly but first of all I needed a job. My dream was to build a rewarding career to base a full life upon. Aviation has descended into more of an American Idol show. One or two might make it but majority will not after blowing 15 years in line and perhaps as much as 200K in education and training expenses.
Flying isn't a career anymore but a 200K Hail Mary. I never would have invested myself into such a folly.
SkyHigh
Last edited by ANPBird; 03-22-2007 at 08:20 AM. Reason: SP
03-22-2007 | 08:19 AM
#77
New Hire
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
5th year captain at most regionals, better than 55K.
First year at most majors, about 55K. This would be the next logical move after the first 5 years at a regional.
I am not sure where everyone gets off that a Regional FO is supposed to have a life style. Making a living at this level should be the concern. If you're getting in at an older age, 35 for myself I knew I was taking a hit for a couple of years.
It's a work your way up business you knew that getting into it, didn't you?
The current shortage of Pilots I believe will make the next couple of years pretty interesting. Wait and see, or go ride a desk somewhere for those dream dollars.
First year at most majors, about 55K. This would be the next logical move after the first 5 years at a regional.
I am not sure where everyone gets off that a Regional FO is supposed to have a life style. Making a living at this level should be the concern. If you're getting in at an older age, 35 for myself I knew I was taking a hit for a couple of years.
It's a work your way up business you knew that getting into it, didn't you?
The current shortage of Pilots I believe will make the next couple of years pretty interesting. Wait and see, or go ride a desk somewhere for those dream dollars.
What I meant by lifestyle was not fine wine and fast cars. I was looking for things like days on vs. off, time away from home, reserve and schedules. I would assume a first year FO would get all of the trips that no one else wants.
As far as getting into it goes, I'm only getting my feet wet right now. I only fly on the weekend and still have my day job that pays the bills.
What made you start later on in your life? Are you happy with your decision? Lots of negatives on this site as I have lurked for a month or so.
Thanks, Kevin
03-22-2007 | 08:23 AM
#78
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
I don't know you but you appear to have nothing but contempt and utter bitterness for the aviation industry. Just curious...why do you still come to this forum if that's the case?
03-22-2007 | 10:27 AM
#79
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
03-22-2007 | 10:46 AM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes: 0
From: FO - 757/767
oh paleez!, ya and jeff gordon's number 24 costs about 260k, but when will you ever see that on the road? i'm speaking in practical terms. and mike, if you can't live off of 200k and have a boatload of disposable income, then you either have a 400 dollar a day heroine habit, have a biatch wife who spends your money like water, or are just real bad with money......maybe all of the above?
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