FAA Proposes 1500-Hour Rule Changes
11-10-2017, 11:32 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Sr. Barco
AviationNews.net
We had the POI of a major airline in the jumpseat 2 months ago and he told us this was coming. He said re-writing the ATP rules is a major priority of the FAA right now. However, he said the hours reduction will be approved in conjunction with a newly designed, airline sponsored training program. According to him said training program will consist of extensive sim time for new hires, probably in excess of 100 hours in the sim, followed by extensive IOE, well in excess of the current 20 hours for 121 IOE. He said he's been in many meetings on the subject and as of 2 months ago this is what they thought the program would look like.
Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just repeating what we were told.
We had the POI of a major airline in the jumpseat 2 months ago and he told us this was coming. He said re-writing the ATP rules is a major priority of the FAA right now. However, he said the hours reduction will be approved in conjunction with a newly designed, airline sponsored training program. According to him said training program will consist of extensive sim time for new hires, probably in excess of 100 hours in the sim, followed by extensive IOE, well in excess of the current 20 hours for 121 IOE. He said he's been in many meetings on the subject and as of 2 months ago this is what they thought the program would look like.
Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just repeating what we were told.
Last edited by DarkSideMoon; 11-10-2017 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Typo
11-10-2017, 11:38 AM
#52
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Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,940
Ch.11 is built in to the legacy carrier 10 year plans.
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Not surprising. Doesn't replace experience, but it does accomplish several things...
1. Let's the FAA off the hook, they can justify reduced hours with more training which, while it doesn't substitute for actual experience, looks good on paper.
2. Let's the airlines avoid having to pay new-hires more to attract qualified applicants. That's problematic because...
a) Under a CBA the old-hires will want more too.
b) If contractual rates rise across the board, it's hard to undo them later without Ch.11.
This way the airlines throw money at additional training, but only for the duration of the pilot shortage. Once market conditions change, they can shift the training cost back to the applicants.
1. Let's the FAA off the hook, they can justify reduced hours with more training which, while it doesn't substitute for actual experience, looks good on paper.
2. Let's the airlines avoid having to pay new-hires more to attract qualified applicants. That's problematic because...
a) Under a CBA the old-hires will want more too.
b) If contractual rates rise across the board, it's hard to undo them later without Ch.11.
This way the airlines throw money at additional training, but only for the duration of the pilot shortage. Once market conditions change, they can shift the training cost back to the applicants.
11-10-2017, 12:22 PM
#53
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Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by Aurora8
When I started at OO in May, they didn't even look at my log books; they just said, "You've got an ATP? Don't need to see em..."
11-10-2017, 12:53 PM
#54
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Posts: 692
I don't think some people really get this. It's corporate america at it's finest. They don't even care or want to know if the logbooks are valid. There is money to be made, salaries to be paid and shareholders with expectations. No one has a good reason to actively try to screw up the situation.
11-10-2017, 01:23 PM
#55
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Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by tom11011
Ch.11 is built in to the legacy carrier 10 year plans.
You can still file of course but it's harder for the same old pack of clowns to shed obligations and keep their jobs... Much more risk of liquidation. Took the "possession" out of debtor in possession.
11-10-2017, 03:38 PM
#56
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Posts: 66
Originally Posted by jdebrey
As a student pilot who is at a 141 college with less than 300 hours until the magic 1,000 hours this would be absolutley horrible to me in my opinion. so much money wasted trying to get so many hours.
950 hours, and I need another 550 here.... I feel 1500 should stay to keep our salaries up (FAIR), and let people learn how to actually fly before they are right seat. Go overseas if you want to get thrown in the right seat at 250.
11-10-2017, 03:39 PM
#57
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Posts: 88
Originally Posted by Mike5250
950 hours, and I need another 550 here.... I feel 1500 should stay to keep our salaries up (FAIR), and let people learn how to actually fly before they are right seat. Go overseas if you want to get thrown in the right seat at 250.
I 100% agree with you
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11-10-2017, 03:54 PM
#58
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Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Mike5250
950 hours, and I need another 550 here.... I feel 1500 should stay to keep our salaries up (FAIR), and let people learn how to actually fly before they are right seat. Go overseas if you want to get thrown in the right seat at 250.
11-10-2017, 04:25 PM
#60
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Posts: 846
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Actually Congress changed the law to make it a bit harder. IIRC both NWA and DAL filed on the very last day before the new rules took effect.
You can still file of course but it's harder for the same old pack of clowns to shed obligations and keep their jobs... Much more risk of liquidation. Took the "possession" out of debtor in possession.
You can still file of course but it's harder for the same old pack of clowns to shed obligations and keep their jobs... Much more risk of liquidation. Took the "possession" out of debtor in possession.
Didn't both RAH and endeavor have DiP in their BKs?
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