MAJOR news about 1500 hour rule change
11-26-2017, 04:21 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by MantisToboggan
You can't come on here attacking his argument when you come in swinging with a line like that, buddy.
Your explanation of the hiring makes much more sense then his did which was poor applications and lack of volunteer work. I feel bad for those guys though. Couldn't move on in their prime because of 9/11 or the bad economy meant the Majors weren't hiring, and now when they are hiring again the have too many hours. Just doesn't seem right.
11-26-2017, 05:04 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,948
Originally Posted by TheWeatherman
Sure I can because that was exactly my point. Showing the absurdity in his overarching comment by making another of my own.
Your explanation of the hiring makes much more sense then his did which was poor applications and lack of volunteer work. I feel bad for those guys though. Couldn't move on in their prime because of 9/11 or the bad economy meant the Majors weren't hiring, and now when they are hiring again the have too many hours. Just doesn't seem right.
Your explanation of the hiring makes much more sense then his did which was poor applications and lack of volunteer work. I feel bad for those guys though. Couldn't move on in their prime because of 9/11 or the bad economy meant the Majors weren't hiring, and now when they are hiring again the have too many hours. Just doesn't seem right.
I *asked* if they had those qualifications. If there are 10,000 hour guys out there with great attitudes and clean records and volunteer experience similar to that of the 3,000 hour pilots and they're not getting hired, I'll believe the "10,000 hour kiss of death".
Personally, I've just run into several very high time pilots with entitled attitudes and nothing on their resume besides "line pilot". Obviously the majors wouldn't be chomping at the bit to hire someone like that.
The whole point of my original post was to see what the background of those Acy pilots were like.
11-26-2017, 07:16 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 444
Originally Posted by poopplop
This is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time! I have known flight instructors who were sole bread-winners with 3+ happy kids before they moved to the airlines. Don't hate on "junior" just because you were alone or too lazy during the wonder years! 
back at ya.Nope, no hate on junior. Just hate on HR for dreaming up ways to disqualify someone with more experience.
Wonder Years you say. Been there too, 1st kid on the way and flying 135 in piston twins making $16k a year. Back in the late 80s early 90's 3000 hrs wasn't comptetive to get you in the door at many regionals flying turboprops. Then came the era of pay to play, 1200 hours, and $12-20k bought you a seat in class to fly a Saab, or a Shorts. If you were lucky enough to score an interview with a major you may have been rejected 3 times before you were hired. Yep, and just as life was getting good in the late 90s, Sept 11 happens and those that were lucky enough to miss a furlough were locked into a seat at regional for the next 10 years. I was fortunate, in that I was corporate from 2000 until recently and enjoyed a great career until my operation went out of business. With every change brings opportunity, so I too ventured into the regionals now that pay is livable. Its my fellow seasoned regional counterparts who have not been able to seize upon this unprecedented opportunity because they don't meet some new metric (too much total time, too long at regioal must be something wrong, he's bitter, untrainable, entitled, didn't volunteer enough) dreamed up by HR that I feel for. My Wonder Years have been great! Trying at times, but wouldn't trade the experience or people I've worked and learned from. Hope you will be able say the same.
All the while airlines and HR are creating new " pathway plans" of zero to hero bag boy at the grocery to major airline. Agian, there are plenty of qualified pilots to fill the vacancy and take their career to the next level. In fact, I feel bad for "junior" who has amassed sizable debt to venture into this career . He too will get his first eye opening experience if/when the airlines usurp his efforts in favor of the "pathway plans".
11-26-2017, 09:17 PM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by Irishblackbird
I know, I know, l know, generalization's are bad. So are assumptions... alone? lazy? kinda hard to be either when you have kids you Moron! back at ya.
Nope, no hate on junior. Just hate on HR for dreaming up ways to disqualify someone with more experience.
Wonder Years you say. Been there too, 1st kid on the way and flying 135 in piston twins making $16k a year. Back in the late 80s early 90's 3000 hrs wasn't comptetive to get you in the door at many regionals flying turboprops. Then came the era of pay to play, 1200 hours, and $12-20k bought you a seat in class to fly a Saab, or a Shorts. If you were lucky enough to score an interview with a major you may have been rejected 3 times before you were hired. Yep, and just as life was getting good in the late 90s, Sept 11 happens and those that were lucky enough to miss a furlough were locked into a seat at regional for the next 10 years. I was fortunate, in that I was corporate from 2000 until recently and enjoyed a great career until my operation went out of business. With every change brings opportunity, so I too ventured into the regionals now that pay is livable. Its my fellow seasoned regional counterparts who have not been able to seize upon this unprecedented opportunity because they don't meet some new metric (too much total time, too long at regioal must be something wrong, he's bitter, untrainable, entitled, didn't volunteer enough) dreamed up by HR that I feel for. My Wonder Years have been great! Trying at times, but wouldn't trade the experience or people I've worked and learned from. Hope you will be able say the same.
All the while airlines and HR are creating new " pathway plans" of zero to hero bag boy at the grocery to major airline. Agian, there are plenty of qualified pilots to fill the vacancy and take their career to the next level. In fact, I feel bad for "junior" who has amassed sizable debt to venture into this career . He too will get his first eye opening experience if/when the airlines usurp his efforts in favor of the "pathway plans".
back at ya.Nope, no hate on junior. Just hate on HR for dreaming up ways to disqualify someone with more experience.
Wonder Years you say. Been there too, 1st kid on the way and flying 135 in piston twins making $16k a year. Back in the late 80s early 90's 3000 hrs wasn't comptetive to get you in the door at many regionals flying turboprops. Then came the era of pay to play, 1200 hours, and $12-20k bought you a seat in class to fly a Saab, or a Shorts. If you were lucky enough to score an interview with a major you may have been rejected 3 times before you were hired. Yep, and just as life was getting good in the late 90s, Sept 11 happens and those that were lucky enough to miss a furlough were locked into a seat at regional for the next 10 years. I was fortunate, in that I was corporate from 2000 until recently and enjoyed a great career until my operation went out of business. With every change brings opportunity, so I too ventured into the regionals now that pay is livable. Its my fellow seasoned regional counterparts who have not been able to seize upon this unprecedented opportunity because they don't meet some new metric (too much total time, too long at regioal must be something wrong, he's bitter, untrainable, entitled, didn't volunteer enough) dreamed up by HR that I feel for. My Wonder Years have been great! Trying at times, but wouldn't trade the experience or people I've worked and learned from. Hope you will be able say the same.
All the while airlines and HR are creating new " pathway plans" of zero to hero bag boy at the grocery to major airline. Agian, there are plenty of qualified pilots to fill the vacancy and take their career to the next level. In fact, I feel bad for "junior" who has amassed sizable debt to venture into this career . He too will get his first eye opening experience if/when the airlines usurp his efforts in favor of the "pathway plans".
Very well stated!
11-27-2017, 07:26 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,401
Originally Posted by Irishblackbird
I know, I know, l know, generalization's are bad. So are assumptions... alone? lazy? kinda hard to be either when you have kids you Moron! back at ya.
Nope, no hate on junior. Just hate on HR for dreaming up ways to disqualify someone with more experience.
Wonder Years you say. Been there too, 1st kid on the way and flying 135 in piston twins making $16k a year. Back in the late 80s early 90's 3000 hrs wasn't comptetive to get you in the door at many regionals flying turboprops. Then came the era of pay to play, 1200 hours, and $12-20k bought you a seat in class to fly a Saab, or a Shorts. If you were lucky enough to score an interview with a major you may have been rejected 3 times before you were hired. Yep, and just as life was getting good in the late 90s, Sept 11 happens and those that were lucky enough to miss a furlough were locked into a seat at regional for the next 10 years. I was fortunate, in that I was corporate from 2000 until recently and enjoyed a great career until my operation went out of business. With every change brings opportunity, so I too ventured into the regionals now that pay is livable. Its my fellow seasoned regional counterparts who have not been able to seize upon this unprecedented opportunity because they don't meet some new metric (too much total time, too long at regioal must be something wrong, he's bitter, untrainable, entitled, didn't volunteer enough) dreamed up by HR that I feel for. My Wonder Years have been great! Trying at times, but wouldn't trade the experience or people I've worked and learned from. Hope you will be able say the same.
All the while airlines and HR are creating new " pathway plans" of zero to hero bag boy at the grocery to major airline. Agian, there are plenty of qualified pilots to fill the vacancy and take their career to the next level. In fact, I feel bad for "junior" who has amassed sizable debt to venture into this career . He too will get his first eye opening experience if/when the airlines usurp his efforts in favor of the "pathway plans".
back at ya.Nope, no hate on junior. Just hate on HR for dreaming up ways to disqualify someone with more experience.
Wonder Years you say. Been there too, 1st kid on the way and flying 135 in piston twins making $16k a year. Back in the late 80s early 90's 3000 hrs wasn't comptetive to get you in the door at many regionals flying turboprops. Then came the era of pay to play, 1200 hours, and $12-20k bought you a seat in class to fly a Saab, or a Shorts. If you were lucky enough to score an interview with a major you may have been rejected 3 times before you were hired. Yep, and just as life was getting good in the late 90s, Sept 11 happens and those that were lucky enough to miss a furlough were locked into a seat at regional for the next 10 years. I was fortunate, in that I was corporate from 2000 until recently and enjoyed a great career until my operation went out of business. With every change brings opportunity, so I too ventured into the regionals now that pay is livable. Its my fellow seasoned regional counterparts who have not been able to seize upon this unprecedented opportunity because they don't meet some new metric (too much total time, too long at regioal must be something wrong, he's bitter, untrainable, entitled, didn't volunteer enough) dreamed up by HR that I feel for. My Wonder Years have been great! Trying at times, but wouldn't trade the experience or people I've worked and learned from. Hope you will be able say the same.
All the while airlines and HR are creating new " pathway plans" of zero to hero bag boy at the grocery to major airline. Agian, there are plenty of qualified pilots to fill the vacancy and take their career to the next level. In fact, I feel bad for "junior" who has amassed sizable debt to venture into this career . He too will get his first eye opening experience if/when the airlines usurp his efforts in favor of the "pathway plans".
12-14-2017, 05:17 AM
#96
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Phenom Left Seat
Posts: 73
Originally Posted by jdebrey
I just got done with a lecture at University of North Dakota and decided to ask the professor a question about this new proposal. He was the Master Executive Council Chairman at American eagle along with being the Department Chair in the aviation department up at UND, Very respected guy within the aviation industry.
He has been in communication with people in Washington D.C and he told me that probably within 6-12 month there will be at-least a 250 hour reduction to the hours. This would mean that for us at UND we will go down to 750 hours.
He said he along with the lawmakers are about 80% sure it will be passed. He seemed very confident as well.
He went on to say the UND will be reducing students accepted next year due to the major shortage of CFI's available. Things are gonna get a little messy up here. He said the average student who will get accepted into the program will have to have at-least a 22 ACT along with 3.0GPA which is a big step up from before. The industry is about to have a massive issue with staffing CFI's..... Also mentioned even if UND offered 50K to flight instructors why would they stay when they can clear that easily at a regional and later on major? sh*t is gonna hit the fan in my opinion
Also he mentioned legacy carriers have been approaching UND about putting together a pathway program direct to the major airline. He said the discussion was started roughly at the start of this school year. He said even though this is just the beginning of the talks that he would not be surprised if we saw a pathway program setup within the next 1-4 years.
Let me know what you guys think.
-John
He has been in communication with people in Washington D.C and he told me that probably within 6-12 month there will be at-least a 250 hour reduction to the hours. This would mean that for us at UND we will go down to 750 hours.
He said he along with the lawmakers are about 80% sure it will be passed. He seemed very confident as well.
He went on to say the UND will be reducing students accepted next year due to the major shortage of CFI's available. Things are gonna get a little messy up here. He said the average student who will get accepted into the program will have to have at-least a 22 ACT along with 3.0GPA which is a big step up from before. The industry is about to have a massive issue with staffing CFI's..... Also mentioned even if UND offered 50K to flight instructors why would they stay when they can clear that easily at a regional and later on major? sh*t is gonna hit the fan in my opinion
Also he mentioned legacy carriers have been approaching UND about putting together a pathway program direct to the major airline. He said the discussion was started roughly at the start of this school year. He said even though this is just the beginning of the talks that he would not be surprised if we saw a pathway program setup within the next 1-4 years.
Let me know what you guys think.
-John
12-14-2017, 11:57 AM
#97
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by Camel Dancer
Is there a NPRM for this? It usually takes a couple years to get approved after the NPRM is issued.
Age 70 would work the same way.
12-14-2017, 12:42 PM
#98
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Phenom Left Seat
Posts: 73
Originally Posted by Packrat
They didn't need an NRPM for Age 65. Congress just changed the law.
Age 70 would work the same way.
Age 70 would work the same way.
Congress won't change this either because it was the NTSB that got it started on the 1500 hour rule, and what they want Congress listens.
12-14-2017, 08:32 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
Originally Posted by jdebrey
I just got done with a lecture at University of North Dakota and decided to ask the professor a question about this new proposal. He was the Master Executive Council Chairman at American eagle along with being the Department Chair in the aviation department up at UND, Very respected guy within the aviation industry.
He has been in communication with people in Washington D.C and he told me that probably within 6-12 month there will be at-least a 250 hour reduction to the hours. This would mean that for us at UND we will go down to 750 hours.
He said he along with the lawmakers are about 80% sure it will be passed. He seemed very confident as well.
He went on to say the UND will be reducing students accepted next year due to the major shortage of CFI's available. Things are gonna get a little messy up here. He said the average student who will get accepted into the program will have to have at-least a 22 ACT along with 3.0GPA which is a big step up from before. The industry is about to have a massive issue with staffing CFI's..... Also mentioned even if UND offered 50K to flight instructors why would they stay when they can clear that easily at a regional and later on major? sh*t is gonna hit the fan in my opinion
Also he mentioned legacy carriers have been approaching UND about putting together a pathway program direct to the major airline. He said the discussion was started roughly at the start of this school year. He said even though this is just the beginning of the talks that he would not be surprised if we saw a pathway program setup within the next 1-4 years.
Let me know what you guys think.
-John
He has been in communication with people in Washington D.C and he told me that probably within 6-12 month there will be at-least a 250 hour reduction to the hours. This would mean that for us at UND we will go down to 750 hours.
He said he along with the lawmakers are about 80% sure it will be passed. He seemed very confident as well.
He went on to say the UND will be reducing students accepted next year due to the major shortage of CFI's available. Things are gonna get a little messy up here. He said the average student who will get accepted into the program will have to have at-least a 22 ACT along with 3.0GPA which is a big step up from before. The industry is about to have a massive issue with staffing CFI's..... Also mentioned even if UND offered 50K to flight instructors why would they stay when they can clear that easily at a regional and later on major? sh*t is gonna hit the fan in my opinion
Also he mentioned legacy carriers have been approaching UND about putting together a pathway program direct to the major airline. He said the discussion was started roughly at the start of this school year. He said even though this is just the beginning of the talks that he would not be surprised if we saw a pathway program setup within the next 1-4 years.
Let me know what you guys think.
-John
Then the bill will die. End of story.
Age 70 is the most likely change on the horizon.
12-15-2017, 04:35 AM
#100
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Phenom Left Seat
Posts: 73
FlyingKat is right, this will not go anywhere. They have made their decision and whether it makes it more difficult to get to an airline as a student pilot or not doesn't matter to our legislators.
IMHO they actually got this one right. I was an intern at the NTSB shortly after the Colgan crash and I can tell you that there is nothing that makes them more ****ed off than the fact that pilots lugging live bodies around can't get enough rest due to terrible pay.
If airlines need to charge more per seat mile and then dip into their pockets to hired qualified, experienced, mature individuals to haul everyone's family somewhere then let's do it and leave it alone.
I have said this before and I will say it again, there is not a pilot shortage right now. There is higher demand, but there are plenty of experienced guys flying part 135 and mature flight instructors that have been and could be brought in to fill that demand as the wages go up.
IMHO they actually got this one right. I was an intern at the NTSB shortly after the Colgan crash and I can tell you that there is nothing that makes them more ****ed off than the fact that pilots lugging live bodies around can't get enough rest due to terrible pay.
If airlines need to charge more per seat mile and then dip into their pockets to hired qualified, experienced, mature individuals to haul everyone's family somewhere then let's do it and leave it alone.
I have said this before and I will say it again, there is not a pilot shortage right now. There is higher demand, but there are plenty of experienced guys flying part 135 and mature flight instructors that have been and could be brought in to fill that demand as the wages go up.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
aviatoralex
Flight Schools and Training
18
06-27-2011 01:51 PM
