Originally Posted by dera (Post 2794404)

Here's an important point to remember:

There are no lifers at AA WO's who are there because they have no choice.

There are plenty of lifers at every other regional, who are stuck even if they want out.

Originally Posted by jonnyjetprop (Post 2795370)

Not true. AA doesn't force you to flow or you can delay as long as you want.

Originally Posted by Flyboy68 (Post 2791783)

So when I hit 8000 hours in the coming years, should I take a leave of absence? What the hell?

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2795218)

I think it's more of a mindset than a timeline. Plenty of 10-15+ year guys going to the legacies now that they are hiring.

I've even been surprised when a few old "I'd only leave for DAL or FDX" guys (who I though were just saying that as an excuse) have recently left for DAL or FDX.

Originally Posted by Fourpaw (Post 2796055)

Also to clear the record. Everyone uses the standard "in your 50s with kids reasoning." There are some of us with kids approaching teenage years in our 30s.

Same problem as someone who is supposedly older, what's more important? Time with your kids before they hate you for a decade or money.

Originally Posted by jonnyjetprop (Post 2795370)

Not true. AA doesn't force you to flow or you can delay as long as you want.

Originally Posted by Fourpaw (Post 2796055)

Also to clear the record. Everyone uses the standard "in your 50s with kids reasoning." There are some of us with kids approaching teenage years in our 30s.

Same problem as someone who is supposedly older, what's more important? Time with your kids before they hate you for a decade or money.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2796721)

That's true today. In the old days the flow was mandatory, and AA mainline also forced you to upgrade when you were senior enough, ie couldn't camp out at the top of the FO list.

Originally Posted by dera (Post 2796950)

When was the flow mandatory?

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2797028)

I recall some senior guys got forced to flow at one point about ten years ago, some guys that didn't want to. I think there was a union controversy over that?

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2797028)

I recall some senior guys got forced to flow at one point about ten years ago, some guys that didn't want to. I think there was a union controversy over that?

Originally Posted by Aquaticus (Post 2793913)

That is just a poor risk assessment. On par with parking your investment cash in a money market account because "the recession is right around the corner". Every one has a risk tolerance but staying at a regional because you might get furloughed is about the same as building a castle in the woods for a zombie apocalypse. There will always be regionals hiring with fast upgrade times that will be able to replace your current income and the reward for leaving is quantifiable. Even the worst of the worst times in the industry presented an experienced pilot with employment pretty quickly. If someone gave me that excuse I would understand that their decision making is flawed or they were delusional.

Originally Posted by Learflyer (Post 2797411)

ARE YOU KIDDING? Obviously you’ve never been through the few recessions of the last 25 years. And no, even the regionals weren’t hiring during the worst of economic downturns. I remember I couldn’t even get a CFI job. So spare me. And please don’t deny another economic downturn nor berate another for playing it conservative by staying at a regional.

Originally Posted by ICUROOK (Post 2797441)

There is not going to be another downturn, at least not one as bad as 2008, for a long time.

Originally Posted by Leroy Smith (Post 2797452)

Famous last words.


I like to go with "But this time is different!"


.

Originally Posted by ICUROOK (Post 2797441)

There is not going to be another downturn, at least not one as bad as 2008, for a long time.

Originally Posted by ICUROOK (Post 2797465)

I get the game you are playing. Year after year you will say "the next recession is coming, mark my words" and eventually you will be right, because everything is cyclical. You'll sit there all sumg and glowing because you will be thinking of how smart everybody thinks you are because you predicted this all along. Meanwhile what everybody is actually thinking "this d$#$#bag has been wrong year after year and then now when it finally hits, which we all knew was eventually coming, he fancies himself some type of financial expert".

Look buddy, I'm sorry flipping houses didn't go so well for you in the 00s and you lost your retirement. Here is a little tip for next time, when everybody is doing the same thing, expect things to collapse like a house of cards. The recession we saw in 2008 is a once in every 30 - 50 year recession.

Originally Posted by Flyboy68 (Post 2797598)

”An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn't happen today.”

Laurence J. Peter

Originally Posted by ICUROOK (Post 2797465)

Look buddy, I'm sorry flipping houses didn't go so well for you in the 00s and you lost your retirement. Here is a little tip for next time, when everybody is doing the same thing, expect things to collapse like a house of cards. The recession we saw in 2008 is a once in every 30 - 50 year recession.

Originally Posted by John Carr (Post 2791656)

Probably because they worked at Atlas...

Originally Posted by Long Landing (Post 2791859)

The Minneapolis thing is taken out of context. What I meant by it is I didn’t want to commute farther than Minneapolis but wouldn’t rule out the west coast. But whatever. Either way I was not trying to be condescending nor was I trying to give life advice. Everyone has their reasoning behind their logic. What I am saying was that this is, from my experience and what I do, what is looked for and makes people stand out. I guess I didn’t necessarily come off as well as I intended too. What I was trying to state was that it is a well rounded employee that they’re looking for not just quantity of total time/PIC. And by the same token if you do a ton of volunteering but also lack in areas such as total time/PIC or have a low college GPA then you are equally not as marketable.

I don’t argue with people who stay at a regional for their career. The regionals aren’t a terrible career in today’s world. 10 years ago I wouldn’t ever imagine wanting to spend my life at any of these places but I understand that people didn’t have a choice. The point I was trying to get at was a good amount of posts were aimed at people who are young and don’t understand what those “before us” went through and don’t deserve to be in the positions they are. Like I said I work for a regional. I know people younger than me with less time and experience picked up by a major airline. I don’t look down on them but rather I say “what can I do that they did to help me get hired too.”

You’re right maybe I am young and don’t understand anything about the world. But I also know that going through life miserable about where you are and everything else that is going on around you is no way at all to live.

(And for the guy concerned about paragraphs there ya go. Didn’t realize it was all that important as I’m posting from my phone...)

Originally Posted by dera (Post 2797080)

Given that the top of the list has been here since the early 80's and haven't flowed, I doubt that was ever the case.
Happy to be corrected if that's not how it was.

Originally Posted by ICUROOK (Post 2797441)

There is not going to be another downturn, at least not one as bad as 2008, for a long time.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2796721)

That's true today. In the old days the flow was mandatory, and AA mainline also forced you to upgrade when you were senior enough, ie couldn't camp out at the top of the FO list.

Originally Posted by Cujo665 (Post 2797850)

Flow was never mandatory.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2798372)

I know there were people forced to flow involuntarily at one point. Not sure what the genesis of that was.

Originally Posted by MySaabStory (Post 2798432)

That was them complaining. “Forced” is a loose term they used because they already made the decision and wanted to change it later in the game. It was a one time choice.

Typical babies wanting 2 bites of the apple.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2798474)

Ah. So they had to elect flow well in advance of the actual flow opportunity? And regretted it when their number came up?

Originally Posted by Learflyer (Post 2797411)

ARE YOU KIDDING? Obviously you’ve never been through the few recessions of the last 25 years. And no, even the regionals weren’t hiring during the worst of economic downturns. I remember I couldn’t even get a CFI job. So spare me. And please don’t deny another economic downturn nor berate another for playing it conservative by staying at a regional.

Originally Posted by Aquaticus (Post 2799752)

Even during the 2008 recession there was at least 2 regionals hiring continuously throughout the lowest of the low. Colgan, Republic, Mesa/Go Jets and Skywest were filling classes. Cfi jobs were also easy pickings for anyone with decent experience. So again this victim attitude doesn't work. If you want a job there are always going to be regional jobs to put food on the table. They may not be in your choice of domicile or the most attractive but there were jobs available continuously throughout 2007-2011. If you werent able to get hired as a cfi you were probably underqualified at that time.

Staying at a regional because you are afraid of another downturn is idiotic. A regional job is easily replaceable and is in itself no way secure. Work for an airline that writes thechecks.

Originally Posted by Aquaticus (Post 2799752)

Even during the 2008 recession there was at least 2 regionals hiring continuously throughout the lowest of the low. Colgan, Republic, Mesa/Go Jets and Skywest were filling classes. Cfi jobs were also easy pickings for anyone with decent experience. So again this victim attitude doesn't work. If you want a job there are always going to be regional jobs to put food on the table. They may not be in your choice of domicile or the most attractive but there were jobs available continuously throughout 2007-2011. If you werent able to get hired as a cfi you were probably underqualified at that time.

Staying at a regional because you are afraid of another downturn is idiotic. A regional job is easily replaceable and is in itself no way secure. Work for an airline that writes thechecks.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2798372)

I know there were people forced to flow involuntarily at one point. Not sure what the genesis of that was.

Originally Posted by MySaabStory (Post 2798484)

Yes. In all fairness they had to make the choice years in advance...sometimes many years. In that time some people had their circumstances in life change and felt “forced” to flow.

Originally Posted by ICUROOK (Post 2797441)

There is not going to be another downturn, at least not one as bad as 2008, for a long time.

Originally Posted by Cujo665 (Post 2799906)

Have you looked at the credit back bubble? Or the changes at the IMF? What saved us last time wasn’t the trillions of Govt spending, that just the Govt using a credit card that you and I eventually have to pay. It was the dollar being the world currency. It’s also why so many countries have been dumping US dollars for international trade. We also lost veto ability at the IMF because Obama gave it away.

Start buying metals.

Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon (Post 2799922)

Can you link me an article about Obama giving away veto ability at the IMF? The latest thing I could find was from 2016 and the US was going to retain veto ability.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/b...stage.amp.html

Originally Posted by wrxpilot (Post 2799801)

SkyWest wasn’t hiring at that time. I was in one one the first classes in 2011 when they finally did start hiring.

Originally Posted by Cujo665 (Post 2799901)

Numbered guys were not forced to flow after hiring resumed in 2009. They were certainly pressured by those behind them, and especially by guys who had been displaced from CA to FO when flowbacks came.
Each guy that took a number created an opening for a fkowback and an CA to FO displacement.

The first batch of 35 were guys who’d gone over and been sent back when classes cancelled on 9-11. Prior to 2001 they did indeed have to flow.