Originally Posted by vdawson

Well the information may be available elsewhere, but I imagine when this forum was started it was with the vision of a place where pilots new to the profession as well as older veterans could come together and learn from each other and share some camaraderie. Any forum I’ve ever been a part of has a tendency to have the same topics come up again and again. It’s just the nature of the beast. Most of the time when that happens new insights are provided, especially given that things change rapidly in the regional airline industry. It’s very flavor of the month.

What is also part of the regional industry is a high percentage of 20 somethings running around pumped full of testosterone and acting like some kind of JR high school look-at-me bully. You aren’t being helpful by telling someone their question is stupid, or telling them that they aren’t cut out for the industry because they asked a question.

The reality of this profession is that anyone of average intelligence can do this job. There is no system in place to reward you for your superior pilot skills. There is a system in place to try and weed out A holes though. You can go much farther in this industry by going out of your way to be polite than you ever can with Chuck Yeager piloting ability. Just trying to help you out and offer some advice that will help you in your career.

Sometimes I see a thread that has been covered and I’m not interested so I move on. Sometimes I skim through and learn something new. This is even more true when someone is asking for opinions, which the OP did. Perceptions change in this industry almost daily. Just cut the guy some slack.

Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon

You’re grossly exaggerating what I said. I never said “they can’t make it in this industry” or that their question was stupid. There are bullies in this industry, they’re the captains boasting in the crew room about messing with new FO’s and in the sim yelling profanities at stressed out new hires over minor mistakes. Telling someone they’re being lazy, and that those habits will not help them on the line, does not make me a bully. I said nothing personally insulting or demeaning. Criticism isn’t bullying.

Their question is great! It can just be answered by reading. Nowhere did I claim I had “superior pilot skills”. Most of the difficulty in this job isn’t flying, it’s reading and understanding your manuals. I’m usually very polite, in this case I was a bit curt, but the underlying advice is sound.

Originally Posted by Approach1260

I'd rather an FO ask me a hundred questions, and avoid doing something stupid, than have them afraid to ask (thanks to lovely individuals like yourself). Enjoy having first officers afraid to speak up around you, especially when we're counting on them to be a safety net for when we inevitably forget something.

Our industry is suffering a brain drain because of many reasons. Every question has a written answer, but as anyone who's gone through upgrade training can attest, the fastest way to get to a specific answer is to ask the other pilots.

Be part of the solution, not the problem.

Originally Posted by ninerdriver

Dude, there are third year FOs at JetBlue pulling down over $170K. Is it $220K? No, but once you're making that much, if you're happy with it, then why does it matter whether you're at the Big 3 or an LCC?

Oh, wait. Because pilots.

Originally Posted by Cujo665

When the kids hit university age, it’s the difference between them having no debt, or student loans to pay off. Your example of $170k vs $220k is $50k a year over a decade or more before college. An extra 3-4% direct contribution is over a million over an entire career.
Yes, they are perfectly good jobs, but if you’re only a few years in and a legacy calls, you go. Exception being if you’re older or live in Base. Once you upgrade at your LCC it’s too late to jump and then play catch up unless you’re very young.
It’s easy to see, just run a spreadsheet with the current rates and compare each airline.

Originally Posted by Cujo665

When the kids hit university age, it’s the difference between them having no debt, or student loans to pay off. Your example of $170k vs $220k is $50k a year over a decade or more before college. An extra 3-4% direct contribution is over a million over an entire career.
Yes, they are perfectly good jobs, but if you’re only a few years in and a legacy calls, you go. Exception being if you’re older or live in Base. Once you upgrade at your LCC it’s too late to jump and then play catch up unless you’re very young.
It’s easy to see, just run a spreadsheet with the current rates and compare each airline.

Originally Posted by OpMidClimax

My friends are making more money at jet blu now since they got there 2 + years now. They will always make more money than me, my one friend already funded 100k in his IRA 401k and I am still waiting for my flow at a wo and to make over 100k.

My friends wil all be CA at jblu while I'm still an FO at AA.

I made a mistake waiting for the flow.

I will not earn as much as my friends over the rest of my career.

Also you need to adjust your spread sheet for earnings invested or debt alleviated in the years your at the LCC vs years at the regional until you go to a legacy.

Originally Posted by dera

You know you would probably win a Nobel prize for that spreadsheet, unless your timescale is like 5 years or so.
Too many moving targets and shifting goalposts in that equation to make a meaningful determination on future earnings. Things like, right now AA G4 CA is let's say 30 years. It likely will drop to half in the next few years. Route structures, fleet composition, salary expectations etc. Too complicated to make any sort of meaningful estimations on what your career would be like for the next 20 or so years. 2 years ago, Spirit/Frontier etc spreadsheets would have looked completely different than what they do today.

Originally Posted by No Land 3

Year three at Jet Blue making 170k? That is decent and on par with Kalitta.
Don't kick yourself for waiting for the flow, there is no guarantee of getting hired anywhere, besides your flow. If you get a class date and turned it down to stay at a regional, then yes, please kick yourself.
170k as an FO is enough money to not feel pressure to upgrade to the left seat, and is more money than the vast majority of the country will ever make in a year. But again, the same can be said for a regional CA.
170K is also enough for most people to not view money as the most important factor, QOL takes over at that point.