Mesaba new hires
03-28-2008 | 06:02 AM
#2671
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: SF-340 FO
[quote=xjsf340fo;349723]
Wow sounds like i have alot of work ahead of me
Take your time...HAVE FUN...be respectful of all the work groups (FA's, ground support, gate agents, etc...)
I finished IOE yesterday. IMHO the order of difficulty for an FO IOE is:
#1. Situational awareness at DTW/dealing with the taxi instructions. The rapid fire instructions seem to not quite match up to what you expect, and it's very unnerving. A great LCA -- like Joe McCauley is -- understands and is ready to take up the slack. Between the first and second segments of my IOE, I learned the DTW taxi diagram from memory and most of the frequencies. I cannot recommend enough that you spend some of your pre-IOE free time to do the same for your base -- but you'll still struggle.
#2. Visual approaches. Sim tng is all about flying instrument approaches to mininums, but my IOE included only ONE ILS, and a whole bunch of visual approaches. Sadly, there is very, very little you can do to get ready to perform good visual approaches. I can only recommend absorbing every word your LCA tells you about how to configure, asking every possible question that occurs to you, and trying to mimic the way he flies an approach in every detail.
The last thing I can say is, RELAX. I am not a natural relaxer, instead constantly working on not making the same mistake twice. Understand and accept the fact that you will make the same mistakes over and over again, and don't let it get to you. If you thought training was drinking from a firehose, then IOE is drinking from two firehoses at the same time -- while flying an airplane.
One last caution, never, ever leave the plane without carrying your cellphone, and have your LCA's cell number stored.
I finished IOE yesterday. IMHO the order of difficulty for an FO IOE is:
#1. Situational awareness at DTW/dealing with the taxi instructions. The rapid fire instructions seem to not quite match up to what you expect, and it's very unnerving. A great LCA -- like Joe McCauley is -- understands and is ready to take up the slack. Between the first and second segments of my IOE, I learned the DTW taxi diagram from memory and most of the frequencies. I cannot recommend enough that you spend some of your pre-IOE free time to do the same for your base -- but you'll still struggle.
#2. Visual approaches. Sim tng is all about flying instrument approaches to mininums, but my IOE included only ONE ILS, and a whole bunch of visual approaches. Sadly, there is very, very little you can do to get ready to perform good visual approaches. I can only recommend absorbing every word your LCA tells you about how to configure, asking every possible question that occurs to you, and trying to mimic the way he flies an approach in every detail.
The last thing I can say is, RELAX. I am not a natural relaxer, instead constantly working on not making the same mistake twice. Understand and accept the fact that you will make the same mistakes over and over again, and don't let it get to you. If you thought training was drinking from a firehose, then IOE is drinking from two firehoses at the same time -- while flying an airplane.
One last caution, never, ever leave the plane without carrying your cellphone, and have your LCA's cell number stored.
Wow sounds like i have alot of work ahead of me
03-28-2008 | 06:58 AM
#2672
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: A319/320/321 FO
[quote=xjsf340fo;349723]
All of that is really great advice. I completed IOE on the -200 last week and I'm on reserve at least for the month of April. Three other guys from my 10/22 class are also on reserve for April until they get another 3-4 lines built for where we're at seniority wise. That should probably clue in the others that are waiting what they can expect after IOE....so probably at least a month of reserve.
My IOE lasted about 30-40 hours over the course of a 4-day, and three 2-day trips. I had all the same challenges as "XJSF340fo" and "RJ85FO" already mentioned.
On the visual approaches, I've had two specific challenges that I'm still not perfect on, but it's coming along....ATC frequently vectors us inside the FAF and when the flight director is still configured at the altitude you'd normally be at prior to the FAF, it either captures at the higher glide path or not at all....I just disconnect the AP and hand-fly it in at that point, but I've had to learn to dial in a lower altitude on the FD quicker and VS it down so it will re-capture the correct the glide path. Hand-flying is great, but they want the FD configured properly for the approach regardless. It's tough because there is very little time to soak that process in and do what needs to be done. It takes several landings/approaches like this to start "getting it". They DO NOT teach you that in SIM at all (if only once and you won't remember it).
The other challenge is getting away from that "light aircraft" profile on the flare. In a light aircraft, you basically flare the aircraft until the airspeed bleeds down toward stall and the aircraft settles onto the runway. In the -200, I've learned that the wings "like" airspeed and you have to just plant that sucker on the runway. I've had some greaser landings that I walked away feeling really proud of, which is fine when there is no wind. However, that doesn't transition well anytime there is a strong crosswind or gusting winds of any kind. My advice during windy conditions...keep that speed up above the "box" and push it down.
I'm still getting used to the radios and will (on occasion) completely blow a taxi or approach clearance. My brain can remember 3-4 things, but sometimes ATC just spits something out that melts my brain. It's rather funny....I just stopped once and said, "Uh, what the heck did you just say?" We were coming out of the 30R deice pad, conducting a X-bleed start, and what I was expecting ATC to say was not what was said. Now, thinking about it, it wasn't that the instructions were too difficult to understand, it was just not what I expected. It's embarrassing, but you can't beat yourself up about it too much.
I had a couple really interesting experiences too....lots of MEL'd APUs and a Zero flap landing on my second day (170kts) with the fire trucks following us down the runway. My captain was sitting there, probably thinking about all the terrible things that could happen...and I'm like, "Cool! Just like SIM! I'm invincible!"
I flew with all nice captains. Yeah, some had "quirks", but they were all good teachers and I appreciated the effort they took with me. It's stressful for us, but think about how they must feel too. A lot of these IOE instructors are getting worked hard since all this training began and it must be tough to break in one pilot after another. Yeah, I know, it's their job, but they are humans too. One of my IOE classmates on the -200 also advised that you keep your wits about you. I mean, it's hard because you're soaking in all the newness, but he experienced an IOE instructor making an incorrect turn on a departure involving "mountains". The advice is to "speak up" if you see/hear something that's not right and don't just sit there expecting your IOE instructor to know it all.
Anyways, that's my ramblings....good luck to those of you still coming in. It's an unbelievable experience.
Take your time...HAVE FUN...be respectful of all the work groups (FA's, ground support, gate agents, etc...)
I finished IOE yesterday. IMHO the order of difficulty for an FO IOE is:
#1. Situational awareness at DTW/dealing with the taxi instructions. The rapid fire instructions seem to not quite match up to what you expect, and it's very unnerving. A great LCA -- like Joe McCauley is -- understands and is ready to take up the slack. Between the first and second segments of my IOE, I learned the DTW taxi diagram from memory and most of the frequencies. I cannot recommend enough that you spend some of your pre-IOE free time to do the same for your base -- but you'll still struggle.
#2. Visual approaches. Sim tng is all about flying instrument approaches to mininums, but my IOE included only ONE ILS, and a whole bunch of visual approaches. Sadly, there is very, very little you can do to get ready to perform good visual approaches. I can only recommend absorbing every word your LCA tells you about how to configure, asking every possible question that occurs to you, and trying to mimic the way he flies an approach in every detail.
The last thing I can say is, RELAX. I am not a natural relaxer, instead constantly working on not making the same mistake twice. Understand and accept the fact that you will make the same mistakes over and over again, and don't let it get to you. If you thought training was drinking from a firehose, then IOE is drinking from two firehoses at the same time -- while flying an airplane.
One last caution, never, ever leave the plane without carrying your cellphone, and have your LCA's cell number stored.
I finished IOE yesterday. IMHO the order of difficulty for an FO IOE is:
#1. Situational awareness at DTW/dealing with the taxi instructions. The rapid fire instructions seem to not quite match up to what you expect, and it's very unnerving. A great LCA -- like Joe McCauley is -- understands and is ready to take up the slack. Between the first and second segments of my IOE, I learned the DTW taxi diagram from memory and most of the frequencies. I cannot recommend enough that you spend some of your pre-IOE free time to do the same for your base -- but you'll still struggle.
#2. Visual approaches. Sim tng is all about flying instrument approaches to mininums, but my IOE included only ONE ILS, and a whole bunch of visual approaches. Sadly, there is very, very little you can do to get ready to perform good visual approaches. I can only recommend absorbing every word your LCA tells you about how to configure, asking every possible question that occurs to you, and trying to mimic the way he flies an approach in every detail.
The last thing I can say is, RELAX. I am not a natural relaxer, instead constantly working on not making the same mistake twice. Understand and accept the fact that you will make the same mistakes over and over again, and don't let it get to you. If you thought training was drinking from a firehose, then IOE is drinking from two firehoses at the same time -- while flying an airplane.
One last caution, never, ever leave the plane without carrying your cellphone, and have your LCA's cell number stored.
My IOE lasted about 30-40 hours over the course of a 4-day, and three 2-day trips. I had all the same challenges as "XJSF340fo" and "RJ85FO" already mentioned.
On the visual approaches, I've had two specific challenges that I'm still not perfect on, but it's coming along....ATC frequently vectors us inside the FAF and when the flight director is still configured at the altitude you'd normally be at prior to the FAF, it either captures at the higher glide path or not at all....I just disconnect the AP and hand-fly it in at that point, but I've had to learn to dial in a lower altitude on the FD quicker and VS it down so it will re-capture the correct the glide path. Hand-flying is great, but they want the FD configured properly for the approach regardless. It's tough because there is very little time to soak that process in and do what needs to be done. It takes several landings/approaches like this to start "getting it". They DO NOT teach you that in SIM at all (if only once and you won't remember it).
The other challenge is getting away from that "light aircraft" profile on the flare. In a light aircraft, you basically flare the aircraft until the airspeed bleeds down toward stall and the aircraft settles onto the runway. In the -200, I've learned that the wings "like" airspeed and you have to just plant that sucker on the runway. I've had some greaser landings that I walked away feeling really proud of, which is fine when there is no wind. However, that doesn't transition well anytime there is a strong crosswind or gusting winds of any kind. My advice during windy conditions...keep that speed up above the "box" and push it down.
I'm still getting used to the radios and will (on occasion) completely blow a taxi or approach clearance. My brain can remember 3-4 things, but sometimes ATC just spits something out that melts my brain. It's rather funny....I just stopped once and said, "Uh, what the heck did you just say?" We were coming out of the 30R deice pad, conducting a X-bleed start, and what I was expecting ATC to say was not what was said. Now, thinking about it, it wasn't that the instructions were too difficult to understand, it was just not what I expected. It's embarrassing, but you can't beat yourself up about it too much.
I had a couple really interesting experiences too....lots of MEL'd APUs and a Zero flap landing on my second day (170kts) with the fire trucks following us down the runway. My captain was sitting there, probably thinking about all the terrible things that could happen...and I'm like, "Cool! Just like SIM! I'm invincible!"
I flew with all nice captains. Yeah, some had "quirks", but they were all good teachers and I appreciated the effort they took with me. It's stressful for us, but think about how they must feel too. A lot of these IOE instructors are getting worked hard since all this training began and it must be tough to break in one pilot after another. Yeah, I know, it's their job, but they are humans too. One of my IOE classmates on the -200 also advised that you keep your wits about you. I mean, it's hard because you're soaking in all the newness, but he experienced an IOE instructor making an incorrect turn on a departure involving "mountains". The advice is to "speak up" if you see/hear something that's not right and don't just sit there expecting your IOE instructor to know it all.
Anyways, that's my ramblings....good luck to those of you still coming in. It's an unbelievable experience.
03-28-2008 | 07:09 AM
#2673
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Hardest thing:
#1. Adjusting and knowing each captain's quirks and qualms!
#2. Hearing Roger Boley's crew brief (he's since retired so you new hires dont have to worry)
#3. Keeping your cool when Stu M. wont shut up.
#4. Trying not to think of impure thoughts when talking with Anita Q.
--she's the nicest and most friendliest FA you will meet!
#5. Matching Joe McC's east coast accent word for word--he's hilarious!
#6. Staying awake on a CHO-DTW CDO
#7. Trying to match slice for slice of Ziti pizza in HPN when eating with Matt L.
#8. Trying to match beer for beer with Ron Curtis
I'll let others now chime in with this.....................................
#1. Adjusting and knowing each captain's quirks and qualms!
#2. Hearing Roger Boley's crew brief (he's since retired so you new hires dont have to worry)
#3. Keeping your cool when Stu M. wont shut up.
#4. Trying not to think of impure thoughts when talking with Anita Q.
--she's the nicest and most friendliest FA you will meet!#5. Matching Joe McC's east coast accent word for word--he's hilarious!
#6. Staying awake on a CHO-DTW CDO
#7. Trying to match slice for slice of Ziti pizza in HPN when eating with Matt L.
#8. Trying to match beer for beer with Ron Curtis
I'll let others now chime in with this.....................................
Sitting in the CRJ200 training abyss, wondering why I ever took an upgrade at all let alone the 200 (it was total luck and unlikely to happen again).
It was this subject. Coming up on 5 years with the company, I had grown VERY comfortable in the right seat. Then I flew with a Captain that just irked me so bad that I changed my bid card that day hoping to take the first upgrade I could get.
I have first hand experience with most of your list. I was very new when I flew with Roger and he was retiring the next week. Outstanding pilot, awful CRM.
I could go on but generally any new hire is going to be pleasantly surprised with the whole group. I never flew with anyone that I thought was incompetent.
New Guys in the 200, don't let the Ice Cream man stories ruin a relationship with a great guy. The stories are mostly true, and I have heard both sides of the stories. He is no longer like that and if you give him a chance, you will learn a lot. If I could fly as an FO for him on every flight, I wouldn't upgrade.
Just do your best, fitting to the Captains style is the hardest part of your job. Also, you better bring your drinking shoes if you're with Ron...
Morning
03-28-2008 | 08:00 AM
#2674
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
[quote=evh347;350158]
All of that is really great advice. I completed IOE on the -200 last week and I'm on reserve at least for the month of April. Three other guys from my 10/22 class are also on reserve for April until they get another 3-4 lines built for where we're at seniority wise. That should probably clue in the others that are waiting what they can expect after IOE....so probably at least a month of reserve.
My IOE lasted about 30-40 hours over the course of a 4-day, and three 2-day trips. I had all the same challenges as "XJSF340fo" and "RJ85FO" already mentioned.
On the visual approaches, I've had two specific challenges that I'm still not perfect on, but it's coming along....ATC frequently vectors us inside the FAF and when the flight director is still configured at the altitude you'd normally be at prior to the FAF, it either captures at the higher glide path or not at all....I just disconnect the AP and hand-fly it in at that point, but I've had to learn to dial in a lower altitude on the FD quicker and VS it down so it will re-capture the correct the glide path. Hand-flying is great, but they want the FD configured properly for the approach regardless. It's tough because there is very little time to soak that process in and do what needs to be done. It takes several landings/approaches like this to start "getting it". They DO NOT teach you that in SIM at all (if only once and you won't remember it).
The other challenge is getting away from that "light aircraft" profile on the flare. In a light aircraft, you basically flare the aircraft until the airspeed bleeds down toward stall and the aircraft settles onto the runway. In the -200, I've learned that the wings "like" airspeed and you have to just plant that sucker on the runway. I've had some greaser landings that I walked away feeling really proud of, which is fine when there is no wind. However, that doesn't transition well anytime there is a strong crosswind or gusting winds of any kind. My advice during windy conditions...keep that speed up above the "box" and push it down.
I'm still getting used to the radios and will (on occasion) completely blow a taxi or approach clearance. My brain can remember 3-4 things, but sometimes ATC just spits something out that melts my brain. It's rather funny....I just stopped once and said, "Uh, what the heck did you just say?" We were coming out of the 30R deice pad, conducting a X-bleed start, and what I was expecting ATC to say was not what was said. Now, thinking about it, it wasn't that the instructions were too difficult to understand, it was just not what I expected. It's embarrassing, but you can't beat yourself up about it too much.
I had a couple really interesting experiences too....lots of MEL'd APUs and a Zero flap landing on my second day (170kts) with the fire trucks following us down the runway. My captain was sitting there, probably thinking about all the terrible things that could happen...and I'm like, "Cool! Just like SIM! I'm invincible!"
I flew with all nice captains. Yeah, some had "quirks", but they were all good teachers and I appreciated the effort they took with me. It's stressful for us, but think about how they must feel too. A lot of these IOE instructors are getting worked hard since all this training began and it must be tough to break in one pilot after another. Yeah, I know, it's their job, but they are humans too. One of my IOE classmates on the -200 also advised that you keep your wits about you. I mean, it's hard because you're soaking in all the newness, but he experienced an IOE instructor making an incorrect turn on a departure involving "mountains". The advice is to "speak up" if you see/hear something that's not right and don't just sit there expecting your IOE instructor to know it all.
Anyways, that's my ramblings....good luck to those of you still coming in. It's an unbelievable experience.
You just finished IOE from the 10/22 class? I just finished sims a couple of weeks ago. I guess I might have a long wait. I have been checking Crew Trac but it says line not loaded. Guess I will have no idea when to expect the call.
All of that is really great advice. I completed IOE on the -200 last week and I'm on reserve at least for the month of April. Three other guys from my 10/22 class are also on reserve for April until they get another 3-4 lines built for where we're at seniority wise. That should probably clue in the others that are waiting what they can expect after IOE....so probably at least a month of reserve.
My IOE lasted about 30-40 hours over the course of a 4-day, and three 2-day trips. I had all the same challenges as "XJSF340fo" and "RJ85FO" already mentioned.
On the visual approaches, I've had two specific challenges that I'm still not perfect on, but it's coming along....ATC frequently vectors us inside the FAF and when the flight director is still configured at the altitude you'd normally be at prior to the FAF, it either captures at the higher glide path or not at all....I just disconnect the AP and hand-fly it in at that point, but I've had to learn to dial in a lower altitude on the FD quicker and VS it down so it will re-capture the correct the glide path. Hand-flying is great, but they want the FD configured properly for the approach regardless. It's tough because there is very little time to soak that process in and do what needs to be done. It takes several landings/approaches like this to start "getting it". They DO NOT teach you that in SIM at all (if only once and you won't remember it).
The other challenge is getting away from that "light aircraft" profile on the flare. In a light aircraft, you basically flare the aircraft until the airspeed bleeds down toward stall and the aircraft settles onto the runway. In the -200, I've learned that the wings "like" airspeed and you have to just plant that sucker on the runway. I've had some greaser landings that I walked away feeling really proud of, which is fine when there is no wind. However, that doesn't transition well anytime there is a strong crosswind or gusting winds of any kind. My advice during windy conditions...keep that speed up above the "box" and push it down.
I'm still getting used to the radios and will (on occasion) completely blow a taxi or approach clearance. My brain can remember 3-4 things, but sometimes ATC just spits something out that melts my brain. It's rather funny....I just stopped once and said, "Uh, what the heck did you just say?" We were coming out of the 30R deice pad, conducting a X-bleed start, and what I was expecting ATC to say was not what was said. Now, thinking about it, it wasn't that the instructions were too difficult to understand, it was just not what I expected. It's embarrassing, but you can't beat yourself up about it too much.
I had a couple really interesting experiences too....lots of MEL'd APUs and a Zero flap landing on my second day (170kts) with the fire trucks following us down the runway. My captain was sitting there, probably thinking about all the terrible things that could happen...and I'm like, "Cool! Just like SIM! I'm invincible!"
I flew with all nice captains. Yeah, some had "quirks", but they were all good teachers and I appreciated the effort they took with me. It's stressful for us, but think about how they must feel too. A lot of these IOE instructors are getting worked hard since all this training began and it must be tough to break in one pilot after another. Yeah, I know, it's their job, but they are humans too. One of my IOE classmates on the -200 also advised that you keep your wits about you. I mean, it's hard because you're soaking in all the newness, but he experienced an IOE instructor making an incorrect turn on a departure involving "mountains". The advice is to "speak up" if you see/hear something that's not right and don't just sit there expecting your IOE instructor to know it all.
Anyways, that's my ramblings....good luck to those of you still coming in. It's an unbelievable experience.
03-28-2008 | 08:26 AM
#2675
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Captain, Lear 31A, 35A
Ooohhh the ice cream man--forgot about that one. Got frozen yogurt twice and was never yelled at (we got along quite well because we were both ex Army)!
Also, #9. Trading joke for joke with Keith Hicks----my stomach would be so darn sore from laughing!
Also, #9. Trading joke for joke with Keith Hicks----my stomach would be so darn sore from laughing!
03-28-2008 | 09:18 AM
#2676
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: A319/320/321 FO
[quote=propilot3574;350198]
Yeah, I did. My PC was on 12/22 and I didn't get the IOE call until the last week of February. Then I had like 9 days off in between nearly all of my following 2-day sessions. I went out on 4 trips (10 days, roughly 30 flights) total to complete IOE.
The roughest part about IOE is that it came just over 2 months after my PC, but that's nothing compared to some of the earlier gals/fellas had to deal with. It was quite the uphill battle to turn my "very weak" this and "very weak" that into something good enough for line ops. And then scheduling didn't do me any favors by giving me like 9 days off in between each trip.
Sure...I enjoyed the time off.....yadda yadda yadda....it would've been better to knock it all out in 2 weeks, but I realize that might not always be possible. I got through it fine, but that's not to say there couldn't be improvements and I know the training department is aware of the challenges and things are likely to improve. As long as you go into it knowing what's coming....it's easier to deal with.
The roughest part about IOE is that it came just over 2 months after my PC, but that's nothing compared to some of the earlier gals/fellas had to deal with. It was quite the uphill battle to turn my "very weak" this and "very weak" that into something good enough for line ops. And then scheduling didn't do me any favors by giving me like 9 days off in between each trip.
Sure...I enjoyed the time off.....yadda yadda yadda....it would've been better to knock it all out in 2 weeks, but I realize that might not always be possible. I got through it fine, but that's not to say there couldn't be improvements and I know the training department is aware of the challenges and things are likely to improve. As long as you go into it knowing what's coming....it's easier to deal with.
Last edited by evh347; 03-28-2008 at 01:01 PM.
03-28-2008 | 11:37 AM
#2677
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
The biggest reason for such a long wait on the 200 for IOE is quite simple... AIRPLANES. Mesaba started hiring furiously last spring and started staffing the 200 appropriately ahead of the game. Then the 200s were delayed. Then there was that paperwork snafuu. All the while people were still entering training. Add to this LCAs were leaving for other airlines and poof, you've got a training backlog. Now that more 200s are on the property and continue to be delivered, as the fleet grows the training backlog will diminish. It's a simple matter of numbers. Only so many people can be flying at any given time.
03-29-2008 | 10:07 AM
#2678
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 709
Likes: 0
From: 320
I checkride was feb 19th and i was told it will be around the middle of may before i start IOE.
03-29-2008 | 12:31 PM
#2679
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: CRJ 900 F/O
Does anyone in the 900 world out there have any ideas on how long of a wait there currently is for IOE after sim training? I'm in sim right now and would like to get an idea, when and how do I find out? Will I get a set date when I leave here or just have to wait for a last minute phone call? Thanks everyone!!
03-29-2008 | 02:26 PM
#2680
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 595
Likes: 2
deleted...
Last edited by Andrew_VT; 03-29-2008 at 02:33 PM. Reason: couldn't find a polite way of saying it...and mama always said...
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