A couple problems there.

1. The seniority boost wouldn't mean anything because we don't want to be RJ pilots... NB FO pays better than RJ CA as it is, and we don't want to change that. So no real gain.

2. You cannot staple pilot groups involuntarily (federal law). You could offer a regional group a deal, if they *agree* to be stapled that's OK but that would probably happen only if there was a threat of extinction... ie we're taking our flying back from your company, do you want to come with planes at the bottom of the list. But even that might be subject to a variety of legal hassles... there will always be *somebody* who wants to make waves. COMAIR could have had a staple, but they held out for DOH... instead of the goldmine, they got the shaft :rolletes:

3. Not saying it will never happen, but one of the obstacles is the need for bare min R-ATP FO's to staff regionals. Majors REALLY don't want to put people like that on their seniority lists where they'll be stuck with them for 40+ years. They want to see some experience, both life and turbine, at least a little bit. Maybe they could have a dual hiring track... experienced pilots (mil and civ) are hired like they always have been and can bid anything, but CFI's are restricted to RJs and don't get off probation for three years and 2000 company hours or something like that. They don't vote, so pay for the "apprentices" could stay low-ish.

 

“Staple” plan would require appropriate group 1 captain pay.

and AA can just flow everyone. Voila, staple

 

Why would a staple even be considered when a company could simply add rj’s to their certificate and hire accordingly off of the street? It’s already their flying and they would have to own or lease the planes that they were to operate. A staple would involve longevity, pay, and integration issues. Simply hiring people as new hires eliminates all of that. I’d think that airline management would follow the path of less cost and less hassle.

 

I think you missed the whole point. The whole "hire accordingly off of the street" is the problem. They simply can't. The legacy airlines are predicting that they will have significant difficulty hiring within the next 12 months. There simply are not 5000 "legacy airline" candidates available anywhere except for their own regional feeds. 1000 or so great candidates will come from military/91/135, but most companies only count on 1/2 of the military pilots that they hire available for the first few years anyways with guard/reserve obligations.

A true staple will never happen, and we all know that. But how they play it out will be interesting. Companies will be parking regional jets by April, and the mainline carriers can not afford to lose their regional feed next summer. There has already been a lot of up-gauging of service, and this will continue as more mainline aircraft are added. Markets that were previously only served by regionals are now getting mainline jets with fewer flights per day.

Just remember, if they could hire all they wanted, they would not be paying massive retention bonuses at the regionals. The legacy airlines don't want their competition to poach their regional feed because they need those pilots.

 

The airlines will scream bloody murder until congress lets them hire 250hr wonders again.

They will intentionally cancel flights to make a spectacle out of it. Congress will fold.

 

Where are they going to find the 175 sims?
Between SkyWest (owns the majority) Mesa, and Envoy, there might be a clapped out sim in Afghanistan we could utilize. How long will the process of buying sims and hiring instructors take? Probably years, time UAL doesn’t have.

What are the most pilots UA has hired AND TRAINED in a year. Now you have to utilize your already thin resources to hire AND train RJ types. Your answer to this issue seems simple, but it’s not.

I thought Rick had a great idea with the 2000 hours or at least 3 years of probation. Unfortunately problem pilots can get through with 1000-1500 hours of piston only. I’d carry that even if they bought out a regional. Once on property at UA they need to prove themselves for 2,000 hours blocked at UA before being removed off probation (or 3 years, which ever comes first).

 

Quite a few of the 175 sims are either owned by the legacy airlines (AA especially) or are leased by the regionals from the training centers. They are not all owned by the regionals. The mainline carriers have a lot more "pull" with the training centers than the regionals do. Plus, it would be pretty easy for United to say to SkyWest that they need their sims, or they would lose all of the United flying.

The regionals really don't hold any good cards in this scenario. The major airlines have the power.

 

Why would SkyWest or Mesa give up 175 sims to UA? Why would AAG give up 175 sims to UA? It wouldn’t be “pretty easy”, not even close.

 

AAG owns 4 175 sims. Plus twice as many CRJ sims.

There are E190 sims out there that are available right now.

It doesn't really take that long to buy a new sim and get it up and running. 18 months at the most.

Whoever owns the flying, owns the power. Sims are not very valuable if they sit there vacant and not able to be used. It isn't hard for a legacy airline to tell a regional what they need in exchange for a good contract. SkyWest/RJET really can't afford to lose the flying of any legacy partner right now.

 

So they give UAL those 170-190 sims and….. lose the flying anyways….. what the hell are you talking about? Do you think SkyWest/Rjet only contracts for UA? How would DL, AA, AS feel about SkyWest giving up training resources to UA for what exactly again?

Unfortunately regionals hold more power than you think, because unfortunately airlines like SWA, F9, and Spirit would have the legacy’s filing BK in a few years if they couldn’t utilize cheap regionals to hold their slots. Legacy’s can’t afford to run 73’s through every slot they own. Use it or lose it, the minute they give up those slots to the ULCC’s, it’s game over.