Regional airlines want to axe 1500 hour rule
10-01-2021 | 05:04 AM
#31
Lives in Base
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 405
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A lot of new regional CAs coming online never experienced this industry prior to 117/1500hr rule and it's unfortunate.
10-01-2021 | 07:18 AM
#32
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,126
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
CFI can be ponzi-esque, but in the dark days after 9/11 I still found plenty of work with non-career oriented students. You might have to hustle, as opposed to hanging around the lounge at the puppy mill picking your nose and hoping they put you on the schedule.
This industry is best approached with lots of hustle... once you finish probation at your career destination airline, then you can relax and enjoy.
10-01-2021 | 07:38 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 647
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They do that overseas and they get computer programmers who seem to have trouble actually flying an airplane if God-forbid they should ever have to do that. How many airliners have crashed overseas in the last decade? How many here in the US (we account for a disproportionate share of total world-wide flying).
Military comes closest, but their screening is rigorous and their training is unforgiving. Even then, the ones who fly solo have ejection seats, and they use them on a regular basis.
An FO's *primary* role (once off IOE) is to be a backup PIC, not an apprentice getting OJT.
Fortunately the colgan families don't seem inclined to let this one go easily, so I doubt any lobbying will stand up to political and media scrutiny.
Military comes closest, but their screening is rigorous and their training is unforgiving. Even then, the ones who fly solo have ejection seats, and they use them on a regular basis.
An FO's *primary* role (once off IOE) is to be a backup PIC, not an apprentice getting OJT.
Fortunately the colgan families don't seem inclined to let this one go easily, so I doubt any lobbying will stand up to political and media scrutiny.
10-01-2021 | 07:45 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,566
Likes: 315
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
Does anyone remember the 1990's? Regionals wouldn't look at you unless you had 1500TT/250 Multi and then you had to fork over $10,000 to pay for your training.
Didn't have $10,000 for an $18,000/yr job? That's okay. Eagle would hire you without pay-for-training, but now you needed 2,000TT and 500 multi.
Kids these days.
And get off my lawn, too.
Didn't have $10,000 for an $18,000/yr job? That's okay. Eagle would hire you without pay-for-training, but now you needed 2,000TT and 500 multi.
Kids these days.
And get off my lawn, too.
10-01-2021 | 07:58 AM
#35
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,126
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
From firsthand anecdotal experience, I disagree. I do believe there are some stick and rudder, hand-eye-coordination skills from flying 1500 hours ASEL, but 121 is a totally different world. If anything, I'd say there's negative transfer from a Cessna to a jet (the ol' chop and drop, for example, that has wrecked airplanes). Even the SA gained from flying VFR everywhere with students is totally different from 121 IFR. I think there are much better ways to ensure high-quality airline pilots and the FAA should redesign a separate training pipeline for people who want to be career airline pilots. The current system of piling high-interest pilot training debt on student loan debt, then taking a barely liveable wage for a few years to time build, is just not that enticing to most 19 year olds.
If the economics don't work, then the airlines can pay for time-building. They're pursuing waivers for the 1500 rule simply because it's cheaper than time building.
Our system in the US is very safe, and is not comparable to most foriegn systems. Look at accident stats over the last 10-20 years, especially the last decade... those numbers paint a stark picture, way too stark to write off as statistical anomalies. I can count on the fingers of one hand the foriegn carriers who I would consider to be equivalent to US safety. And our regionals are our soft under-belly as it is.
10-01-2021 | 08:48 AM
#36
Banned
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,012
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Does anyone remember the 1990's? Regionals wouldn't look at you unless you had 1500TT/250 Multi and then you had to fork over $10,000 to pay for your training.
Didn't have $10,000 for an $18,000/yr job? That's okay. Eagle would hire you without pay-for-training, but now you needed 2,000TT and 500 multi.
Kids these days.
And get off my lawn, too.
Didn't have $10,000 for an $18,000/yr job? That's okay. Eagle would hire you without pay-for-training, but now you needed 2,000TT and 500 multi.
Kids these days.
And get off my lawn, too.
may it Rest In Peace
10-01-2021 | 09:49 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
It's probably more about being the PIC and command mentality than it is about stick-and-rudder skills, although both matter.
If the economics don't work, then the airlines can pay for time-building. They're pursuing waivers for the 1500 rule simply because it's cheaper than time building.
Our system in the US is very safe, and is not comparable to most foriegn systems. Look at accident stats over the last 10-20 years, especially the last decade... those numbers paint a stark picture, way too stark to write off as statistical anomalies. I can count on the fingers of one hand the foriegn carriers who I would consider to be equivalent to US safety. And our regionals are our soft under-belly as it is.
If the economics don't work, then the airlines can pay for time-building. They're pursuing waivers for the 1500 rule simply because it's cheaper than time building.
Our system in the US is very safe, and is not comparable to most foriegn systems. Look at accident stats over the last 10-20 years, especially the last decade... those numbers paint a stark picture, way too stark to write off as statistical anomalies. I can count on the fingers of one hand the foriegn carriers who I would consider to be equivalent to US safety. And our regionals are our soft under-belly as it is.
10-01-2021 | 10:02 AM
#39
Gets Everyday Off
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1
From: Fully Retired
It's probably more about being the PIC and command mentality than it is about stick-and-rudder skills, although both matter.
If the economics don't work, then the airlines can pay for time-building. They're pursuing waivers for the 1500 rule simply because it's cheaper than time building.
Our system in the US is very safe, and is not comparable to most foriegn systems. Look at accident stats over the last 10-20 years, especially the last decade... those numbers paint a stark picture, way too stark to write off as statistical anomalies. I can count on the fingers of one hand the foriegn carriers who I would consider to be equivalent to US safety. And our regionals are our soft under-belly as it is.
If the economics don't work, then the airlines can pay for time-building. They're pursuing waivers for the 1500 rule simply because it's cheaper than time building.
Our system in the US is very safe, and is not comparable to most foriegn systems. Look at accident stats over the last 10-20 years, especially the last decade... those numbers paint a stark picture, way too stark to write off as statistical anomalies. I can count on the fingers of one hand the foriegn carriers who I would consider to be equivalent to US safety. And our regionals are our soft under-belly as it is.
10-01-2021 | 10:03 AM
#40
All is fine at .79
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,490
Likes: 42
From: Paahlot
Does anyone remember the 1990's? Regionals wouldn't look at you unless you had 1500TT/250 Multi and then you had to fork over $10,000 to pay for your training.
Didn't have $10,000 for an $18,000/yr job? That's okay. Eagle would hire you without pay-for-training, but now you needed 2,000TT and 500 multi.
Kids these days.
And get off my lawn, too.
Didn't have $10,000 for an $18,000/yr job? That's okay. Eagle would hire you without pay-for-training, but now you needed 2,000TT and 500 multi.
Kids these days.
And get off my lawn, too.
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