Regional airlines want to axe 1500 hour rule
10-03-2021, 02:15 PM
#71
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Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 198
Originally Posted by Swakid8
I’ll like to add that he had multiple training failures at Colgan.
Colgan was a **** operation at the time. There is a documentary floating about the operation that was eye opening and the way Chuck Colgan ran things there. It wasn’t great….
Colgan was a **** operation at the time. There is a documentary floating about the operation that was eye opening and the way Chuck Colgan ran things there. It wasn’t great….
During that time I was working for the highest paid regional with one of the best contracts and it doesn’t compare to how far improved the work rules and career are now for even the worse airline. What Colgan was doing during that time was criminal and I am still surprised no one went to jail over their work practices when they came out to the public.
10-03-2021, 04:22 PM
#72
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: Big foot
Posts: 414
Originally Posted by Swakid8
I’ll like to add that he had multiple training failures at Colgan.
Colgan was a **** operation at the time. There is a documentary floating about the operation that was eye opening and the way Chuck Colgan ran things there. It wasn’t great….
Colgan was a **** operation at the time. There is a documentary floating about the operation that was eye opening and the way Chuck Colgan ran things there. It wasn’t great….
10-03-2021, 04:34 PM
#73
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Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 29
I mean one question. What about European pilots sitting in the right seat of 737’s and 320’s with 250 hours? Who can explain that? Those who think you need to be a CFI for 2 years and 1500 hours what are your thoughts on this? Are they better trained? Are they more intelligent that pilots here in the US?
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10-03-2021, 04:47 PM
#74
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,120
Originally Posted by Firefighterpilo
I am assuming you were not flying around this time?
Yes 1500 hours is an arbitrary number but the only reason the pay is what it is at regionals now is the changes made to the FARS after the buffalo crash. The safety record over the past decade shows that it had a positive effect. Not just for the unions like you are arguing but for safety and the passengers.
Yes 1500 hours is an arbitrary number but the only reason the pay is what it is at regionals now is the changes made to the FARS after the buffalo crash. The safety record over the past decade shows that it had a positive effect. Not just for the unions like you are arguing but for safety and the passengers.
You’re barking up the wrong tree and twisting arguments.
If the 1500 rule would have been in place then it would NOT have prevented that accident from happening.
It was not lack of experience or the believe thereof.
He had 2500+ hrs on property.
Jail is not the answer for everything but some people involved here should have gone to jail, FAA included.
Where he did his P2F was an ‘airline’ under FAA supervision and where he subsequently got hired (Colgan) was an ‘airline’ equally under FAA “supervision”.
I just threw up a little in my mouth even writing that.
These airlines, past and present get away with literally murder.
What he did 2500 hrs prior has no relevance to that accident.
10-03-2021, 05:34 PM
#76
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Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: MD-88 FO
Posts: 1,561
Originally Posted by Firefighterpilo
Oh yeah talk to any one that flew for Colgan during the 2003-2010 era and they can tell you stories that new pilots couldn’t even comprehend. It was a bad time.
During that time I was working for the highest paid regional with one of the best contracts and it doesn’t compare to how far improved the work rules and career are now for even the worse airline. What Colgan was doing during that time was criminal and I am still surprised no one went to jail over their work practices when they came out to the public.
During that time I was working for the highest paid regional with one of the best contracts and it doesn’t compare to how far improved the work rules and career are now for even the worse airline. What Colgan was doing during that time was criminal and I am still surprised no one went to jail over their work practices when they came out to the public.
10-03-2021, 06:09 PM
#77
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,352
Originally Posted by TiredSoul
You assumed wrong, twice.
You’re barking up the wrong tree and twisting arguments.
If the 1500 rule would have been in place then it would NOT have prevented that accident from happening.
It was not lack of experience or the believe thereof.
He had 2500+ hrs on property.
Jail is not the answer for everything but some people involved here should have gone to jail, FAA included.
Where he did his P2F was an ‘airline’ under FAA supervision and where he subsequently got hired (Colgan) was an ‘airline’ equally under FAA “supervision”.
I just threw up a little in my mouth even writing that.
These airlines, past and present get away with literally murder.
What he did 2500 hrs prior has no relevance to that accident.
You’re barking up the wrong tree and twisting arguments.
If the 1500 rule would have been in place then it would NOT have prevented that accident from happening.
It was not lack of experience or the believe thereof.
He had 2500+ hrs on property.
Jail is not the answer for everything but some people involved here should have gone to jail, FAA included.
Where he did his P2F was an ‘airline’ under FAA supervision and where he subsequently got hired (Colgan) was an ‘airline’ equally under FAA “supervision”.
I just threw up a little in my mouth even writing that.
These airlines, past and present get away with literally murder.
What he did 2500 hrs prior has no relevance to that accident.
10-03-2021, 06:20 PM
#78
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,352
Originally Posted by yelkhettar
I mean one question. What about European pilots sitting in the right seat of 737’s and 320’s with 250 hours? Who can explain that? Those who think you need to be a CFI for 2 years and 1500 hours what are your thoughts on this? Are they better trained? Are they more intelligent that pilots here in the US?
We haven't done that here in a while, and it's too long of a streak to be just dumb luck.
Some GA (or mil) time gives you some actual flying experience, some challenges you don't get often in 121, and some PIC practice.
Pilots outside the US are often very well trained on book learning, computer programing, and auto-pilot engaging, Better than US pilots in fact, but somehow that still doesn't make up for lack of airmanship.
10-03-2021, 07:36 PM
#79
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Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 29
Just a reminder. The United States reports the highest number of civil airliner accidents in the world. Around 1200 fatalities in commercial air transport in the US from 2015 to 2019 compared to 700 in all of Europe. Don’t get me wrong I’m not European. I’m just saying that this 1500 hours rule doesn’t make any sense. Everyday thousands of flights in Europe (Ryanair, Easyjet etc…) are taking off with copilots that are 25 years old who got their jobs with 250 hours logged. Do you think these compagnies are putting their passengers and planes in danger because of that? This is all politics here in the US. It has nothing to do with the fact that 1500 hours makes you a better pilot to drive a airliner.
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10-03-2021, 08:27 PM
#80
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,950
Originally Posted by yelkhettar
Just a reminder. The United States reports the highest number of civil airliner accidents in the world. Around 1200 fatalities in commercial air transport in the US from 2015 to 2019 compared to 700 in all of Europe. Don’t get me wrong I’m not European. I’m just saying that this 1500 hours rule doesn’t make any sense. Everyday thousands of flights in Europe (Ryanair, Easyjet etc…) are taking off with copilots that are 25 years old who got their jobs with 250 hours logged. Do you think these compagnies are putting their passengers and planes in danger because of that? This is all politics here in the US. It has nothing to do with the fact that 1500 hours makes you a better pilot to drive a airliner.
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