I got a question that got me curious from a post I saw here yesterday. Here’s my situation what about PIC as sole manipulator time?
I got hired by this 135 a few months ago to be SIC but I’m flying and logging the “empty” legs aka 91 flights. I log it as total PIC and I added a section in my logbook for “Sole Manipulator”time so I can differentiate between other PIC time. I just want to clarify I DONT log any SIC time in my logbook and the plane DOESNT need a type rating. Is what I’m doing correct? Or should I stop logging time with them? And are the 40 hours I logged that way need to fixed or they are good or cross them off my logbook? I don’t to get screwed in a future interviewi

 

It's fine to log, but I would strongly recommend doing it the way you're doing it... separate columns for Sole Man PIC and actual PIC.

The Sole Man PIC is usable for FAA ratings, and some employers might also credit it towards their PIC requirements (I think the FAA does for jobs that require pilot experience).

But many or most civilian employers will not count it towards their min requirements, as long as you can easily keep the totals separate it's fine. They won't mind that you logged it.

 

When you say the "airplane doesn't need a type rating," do you mean that it's a single-pilot airplane? Is it a single-pilot operation? Are you conducting operations under IFR, under Part 135? What's the rationale or basis for putting a SIC on board?

If you're flying under operations specifications requiring a second in command, and if you're conducting operations under IFR, whether the airplane type certificate is for one pilot or not is irrelevant. Remember that you may log SIC in operations in which the airplane is type certificated for more than one pilot, or when the operation requires more than one pilot, if you're rated in the airplane (category and class, and type, if appropriate).

There's no such thing as "total PIC. You can put any number of made-up classifications of flight time in your logbook, but the regulation simply calls it "pilot in command." Not sole-manipulator pilot in command, or anything else. Just PIC.

If you're rated in the airplane and you're flying the 91 legs as sole manipulator, then you're fully within your discretion to log it as PIC. Some 135 operators, and nearly all 121 operators only consider PIC to be PIC if you were the pilot in command of record, so-designated by the aircraft operator; most won't care that much about what you logged with a 135 operator, but will be strict in considering any time claimed as experience under 121. 91 operations, including corporate, and other non-certificate operations, nobody knows what your role was in the aircraft that day, and no one other than you is really in a position to question it (unless you were clearly a copilot, never a PIC/captain...then it may look odd). There are valid reasons to record your time flown as sole manipulator as PIC; insurance requirements, for example. Some places may want a certain amount of multi-engine in make and model, for example.

The safest bet is that if you're not the pilot in command, don't log pilot in command; nobody can fault you for that, but at the same time, for certain circumstances, you may be "leaving flight time on the table" that might have been applicable toward a privilege, rating, or insurance need.

 

I think it would help to know what type of plane it is. Lets assume its something like a KA90 that doest require a type rating. If you are on a 91 flight, Id log it, if you want to be more conservative and the other pilot is a Instructor (or possibly an ATP), then log it as dual received.

 

So I started doing that in my electronic logbook but my paper logbook I put it under PIC should I go back and cross off that time and make a separate column for Sole Man? In a nutshell my electrician I separated both but paper they are not separated

 

If it doesn’t require a type and you are otherwise legal to fly it, log it as straight PIC time, no note or anything else needed.

If you have the category and class for the plane, it’s 91, and you’re flying it, that’s pretty cut and dry just normal part 91 flying regardless of whatever else the plane is used for


Frankly I think adding odd reason next to flights is going to cause way more issues than just logging a normal PIC 2.3, instrument .3, cross country 2.3 total time 2.3 type normal entry

 

Even if I’m not the person the signed off on the 135 legs? Because it’s 135 ops and I only fly the 91 legs

 

there are two very separate questions here

1) how the FAA counts time logged towards a certificate or rating… ie ATP. Sole manipulator counts

2) how future employers count time. They can do anything. They can say you can only count time wearing boxers not briefs.

 

i know it’s legal to log and it counts towards ATP mins. What’s worrying me is that second question lol I don’t want to get screwed later down the line

 

The kind of airplane is irrelevant. The "kind" of PIC time is irrelevant, too. The FAA only has one classification for PIC. There's no such thing as "sole manipulator PIC", or even "PIC while wearing a Red Shirt and Dating a Girl Named Sally." Just PIC.

Whether the airplane is single pilot or multi pilot by certification is largely irrelevant. You're in the airplane because the employer put you there. If you're involved in an operation that requires more than one pilot (by type certification or by the rules under which the flight is operated), then you can log it. In this case, you can log it as SIC, if your company has a SIC program, and you're operating that flight in a multi engine airplane under IFR.

If your company requires you to do work for the company, whether it's flying passengers to Poughkeepsie, or traveling back empty in your birthday suit while smoking a cigar and inverted, it's duty, which means, along with an airplane maintained on a 135 certificate under a 135 maintenance program, that you're still on a 135 leg...passengers, cargo, or not. Industry wisdom has long perpetuated the notion of "Part 91" legs...but if you're performing duty for the company, it's duty time, and you're still 135, whether the company chooses to call it 91, ABC, or Bobsyouruncle452. Future employers only care if you were a qualified Pilot in Command, and if you list your work history as a SIC for Bobsyouruncle Airways, and you've logged PIC time, you've got some splainin to do, Lucy. The industry is as much about avoiding the appearance of evil as it is about being evil, so plan accordingly.

If you are going to log those "Part 91" legs as PIC, then just log PIC, not "sole manipulator PIC" or some other creative category like "hairy chested PIC" or "Inverted BackCourse So I Could Get Normal Sensing PIC." The latter would be neat, though. Of course if you upgrade, nobody is going to go back to count flights to see which of the nine hundred legs you flew was done before, or after your upgrade, or which ones were 91, or sole manipulator, or manipulator with assistance, or whatever the case may be. If you keep one column in your logbook, PIC, it's a lot cleaner, raises a lot less questions, and doesn't look like you were trying to pad your logbook by inventing categories of flight time.

You said it's a 135 operation and you only fly the "91" legs. Why is that? Are you not a legal crew member?