Comair updates?
10-05-2016 | 06:55 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,143
Likes: 7
From: 737
LOL do tell what "letter" that was.
I think you may be referring to the furloughed pilots getting pref interviews issue. At the time ASA policy was to not ask or require resignations from any furloughed pilots, so they just kept doing what they were doing and some puffed up their chests like it was some big solidarity thing. CMR long standing preexisting policy was to require letters of resignation and they did. Many UAL, USAir and other pilots went there when times were lean, wrote those resignation letters, because they knew their airlines, evil managers that they were, would at the very least throw those letters in the trash. And they ALL did.
Except DL for some reason. DL management was the only legacy that said they would honor those letters, obviously written under duress from pilots in hard times trying to get a small salary and some health insurance etc. That was 100% DL management. 100%.
By the time it became an issue at the MEC level, there was already bad blood between the DL and CMR MEC's (due in no small part to the CMR MEC's extreme arrogance to be sure). The DL MEC was embarrassed that they were the only airline in the country that actually threatened to honor those letters and they wanted to save face. So they asked the CMR MEC to write a toothless letter to CMR management. CMR MEC said it wouldn't matter, as CMR wouldn't change their policy. DL MEC said that didn't matter, just write the letter so we can say we tried and then they could wash their hands of the matter, and oh by the way if they didn't write it, DL was going to blackball them as punishment.
Instead of writing it, even though it would have changed nothing, the CMR MEC got all defensive and said "oh yeah, well then you should loosen scope first and we'll consider it" knowing full well that also wasn't going to happen. The DL MEC lost face but didn't care because now they had a scapegoat. It was all evil CMR's fault. They further elevated their own lack of effectiveness by acting like ASA rushed to their brother pilots in their hour of need, when in reality ASA simply conducted business as usual.
When hiring resumed, for the first couple years ASA pilots were taken with extreme prejudice while only a few token CMR pilots were. The funny thing about that is the CMR membership was in favor of advocating for a policy change (even though CMR management said no way) and the arrogant CMR MEC didn't want rank and file CMR pilots to "jump the line" to DL ahead of their little seniority grab attempt in the first place. So the power brokers on both sides got their hubris on, while the rank and file on both sides got screwed.
So no, that was defiantly not a reason CMR was shut down. It was DL management, 100%, who insisted that those letters would be honored, even though no other airline in the country honored them. So that can not possibly be the reason that DL management pulled down CMR. It was DL management that was stabbing furloughed pilots in the backs, not CMR. They didn't make a symbolic show of support that wouldn't have changed anything, and yes they should have, but this was 100% on DL who owned CMR 100% and could have instantly changed that shameful policy by either disregarding resignation letters or simply picking up the phone and ordering CMR to stop requiring them. Yet they did neither.
I think you may be referring to the furloughed pilots getting pref interviews issue. At the time ASA policy was to not ask or require resignations from any furloughed pilots, so they just kept doing what they were doing and some puffed up their chests like it was some big solidarity thing. CMR long standing preexisting policy was to require letters of resignation and they did. Many UAL, USAir and other pilots went there when times were lean, wrote those resignation letters, because they knew their airlines, evil managers that they were, would at the very least throw those letters in the trash. And they ALL did.
Except DL for some reason. DL management was the only legacy that said they would honor those letters, obviously written under duress from pilots in hard times trying to get a small salary and some health insurance etc. That was 100% DL management. 100%.
By the time it became an issue at the MEC level, there was already bad blood between the DL and CMR MEC's (due in no small part to the CMR MEC's extreme arrogance to be sure). The DL MEC was embarrassed that they were the only airline in the country that actually threatened to honor those letters and they wanted to save face. So they asked the CMR MEC to write a toothless letter to CMR management. CMR MEC said it wouldn't matter, as CMR wouldn't change their policy. DL MEC said that didn't matter, just write the letter so we can say we tried and then they could wash their hands of the matter, and oh by the way if they didn't write it, DL was going to blackball them as punishment.
Instead of writing it, even though it would have changed nothing, the CMR MEC got all defensive and said "oh yeah, well then you should loosen scope first and we'll consider it" knowing full well that also wasn't going to happen. The DL MEC lost face but didn't care because now they had a scapegoat. It was all evil CMR's fault. They further elevated their own lack of effectiveness by acting like ASA rushed to their brother pilots in their hour of need, when in reality ASA simply conducted business as usual.
When hiring resumed, for the first couple years ASA pilots were taken with extreme prejudice while only a few token CMR pilots were. The funny thing about that is the CMR membership was in favor of advocating for a policy change (even though CMR management said no way) and the arrogant CMR MEC didn't want rank and file CMR pilots to "jump the line" to DL ahead of their little seniority grab attempt in the first place. So the power brokers on both sides got their hubris on, while the rank and file on both sides got screwed.
So no, that was defiantly not a reason CMR was shut down. It was DL management, 100%, who insisted that those letters would be honored, even though no other airline in the country honored them. So that can not possibly be the reason that DL management pulled down CMR. It was DL management that was stabbing furloughed pilots in the backs, not CMR. They didn't make a symbolic show of support that wouldn't have changed anything, and yes they should have, but this was 100% on DL who owned CMR 100% and could have instantly changed that shameful policy by either disregarding resignation letters or simply picking up the phone and ordering CMR to stop requiring them. Yet they did neither.
And why did CMR management want DL pilots to give up their seniority?! It's the same company! I remember bring furloughed in 2009 and a couple airlines wanted us to give up our seniority and we were trying to make sure the company would also trash their letters of resignation. I think they were trashed though.
One thing is for sure. The beginning of the end for Comair was in 2000 when it was bought by Delta. Comair would be around still if it ran on its own.
10-06-2016 | 03:17 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: MD-80 CA, Retired
I've always thought that too. I was there "way" back in 1985 to early '88. Delta only owned 20% of Comair then, and was flying to new places without having to ask.
10-06-2016 | 09:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
GOT PAYCUT? Stickers, max said something one time, but it turned out he was only talking about my OSU sticker!!
10-06-2016 | 05:28 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
From: left seat CRJ (again!)
There are many things Delta did to Comair after acquiring full ownership.
There are three events which lead me to believe Delta engineered the failure of Comair. While each event couldn't cause the failure of Comair by itself, these actions by Delta certainly made it more difficult to operate efficiently.
First, Delta took 15 CRJ-700s from Comair and gave them to ASA. This was during contract negotiations and Comair never saw those planes again.
Shortly before bankruptcy, former president Fred Butrell, aka Portfolio Phred, convinced the pilot group to accept a pay freeze and give up the B-fund contributions. One of the carrots dangled in front of the pilot group was the EMB-170. This agreement/LOA passed by six votes. I voted against it as I didn't see how a company soon headed to to bankruptcy could finance the purchase of these new airplanes. Once the LOA passed, Butrell went to Delta in an effort to get a EMB-170 program started. Delta told him those airplanes were going to Republic (hello, Shuttle America!) and Butrell resigned.
After bankruptcy, Freedom lost the -900s they operated for Delta and they were to go to Comair. I held one of the vacancy bids for that "promise." The transfer was cancelled and those airplanes went to Mesaba, now part of Endeavor.
If all those airplanes had remained at Comair, or been delivered as promised/implied, Comair would have been a more profitable operation and probably still flying today...IMO.
There are three events which lead me to believe Delta engineered the failure of Comair. While each event couldn't cause the failure of Comair by itself, these actions by Delta certainly made it more difficult to operate efficiently.
First, Delta took 15 CRJ-700s from Comair and gave them to ASA. This was during contract negotiations and Comair never saw those planes again.
Shortly before bankruptcy, former president Fred Butrell, aka Portfolio Phred, convinced the pilot group to accept a pay freeze and give up the B-fund contributions. One of the carrots dangled in front of the pilot group was the EMB-170. This agreement/LOA passed by six votes. I voted against it as I didn't see how a company soon headed to to bankruptcy could finance the purchase of these new airplanes. Once the LOA passed, Butrell went to Delta in an effort to get a EMB-170 program started. Delta told him those airplanes were going to Republic (hello, Shuttle America!) and Butrell resigned.
After bankruptcy, Freedom lost the -900s they operated for Delta and they were to go to Comair. I held one of the vacancy bids for that "promise." The transfer was cancelled and those airplanes went to Mesaba, now part of Endeavor.
If all those airplanes had remained at Comair, or been delivered as promised/implied, Comair would have been a more profitable operation and probably still flying today...IMO.
10-07-2016 | 09:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 167
From: window seat
10-14-2016 | 12:26 PM
New Hire
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
I've read threads for years and shook my head and refused to weigh in.. Well.. Who caused the shutdown.. DL mad because of a strike, ALPA big league over scrappy little league via the "letter"... JC JC, I can hear the cries now. While I'm not sure, and suspect there is only a handful who can truly say X was the reason (or more likely the final reason). I saw a rank and file group who spouted MY MEC SPEAKS FOR ME, walked the holding pattern while thumping their chest. For years they tried to hold CMR and later DAL as hostage. CMR pilot group fought management, dal management, alpa (think RJ defense coalition - ***, really).. While I worked there for a VERY long time, I don't blame DAL in the end for whatever the final straw or reason was. I now see many a post that now, a few years later, spouts that they didn't authorize the letter or JC didn't speak for me.. Well boys, and a few gals, you made your beds. It is really unfortunate that during a period of great opportunity for pilots to elevate themselves and their pay.. you have pretty much nuked yourselves. Flow through to PSA, and GOdaddyJet, now that is karma. Speaking of Soaper... remember the blow-up rat.. and Freddie "bi-polar" Buttrel... Aaaah, the good old days.
Ok, I feel better now. Only about 60 days till ham certificates come out.... that is if Karla hasn't eaten them all...
Ok, I feel better now. Only about 60 days till ham certificates come out.... that is if Karla hasn't eaten them all...
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