You are doing the right thing, getting informed. No, I have not worked for a union before.

Yes, unions have their problems.

Skyw is a good place to work right now infact, as you have probably heard it’s better than a lot of unionized regionals. However, most of the guys you talked to have worked at a sub par airline, and have moved to skyw to improve their pay and quality of life. Remember, they are coming from mesa, tsa and others so yeah, they have a bad taste in there mouth. But, there are a lot of great Unionized regionals like Express Jet, Horizon etc. You don’t see many of those guys coming over to skyw because they are content at there unionized airline.

I would caution you in making a decision based on those who came from sub par companies. Look at the industry as a whole, why not ask some guys from Express Jet how they like their union? They have a great relationship with management.

Remember a union cannot fix bad management i.e. Mesa, but with a solid company like Express Jet it gives the pilots a voice in there future. The union came to the Express Jet pilots, and got approval for the ONT flying it took less than a week to have a vote yes and get it set up.

Look Im not one of those guys who yaps all day long about unions at work, Im not even on the oc. But as you can tell I do feel strongly about a union here at SkyWest.

 

I agree about listening to guys coming from asa and mesa and trans states about unions. they left their airlines as FO's probably in the first year or two to come to skywest. take what they say with a grain of salt, first of all they dont realize that while yes, they were abused, the union was a huge protection for them and imagine how much worse things would be if they were nonunion. biggest problem with all the regional guys you talk to about how much they hate alpa or unions in general is that all of their 121 experience is post 9/11. yes the trend is when the economy goes down the crapper, everyone blames the unions for it. as a good economy returns in the near future, a union will be your voice to collectively negotiate proper pay and deal with any outstanding issues.

 

Classy reply, thank you for that.

I should have mentioned that 2 of the 18 that said they wouldn't do it don't work here. One is at Alaska, the other Continental. Their reason in case you were wondering was basically pick the worst of 2 evils. Company or Alpa. They did actually say that if we could get our own union going that would be the best, but both of their experiences with ALPA were less than stellar. Both captains btw.

I hear a lot of alpa guys talking about protection and how important it is. I couldn't agree more. But what the alpa guys don't know (at least the ones I've talked to including the guys giving us free food) is the protection we already have. For instance I can give you 2 recent events where Skywest guys got their jobs back after being fired. (no they didn't hire lawyers) Actually in my opinion neither one should have gotten their jobs back but thats not my call. The biggest problem here at skywest is that most pilots don't realize how hard it is to loose their jobs. They think they may need alpa in the future if anything bad (intentional or not) happens to them. As far as pay goes, everyone (pro alpa or not) seems to be in agreement that alpa won't help so I won't discuss that here.
As you already stated, we have it really good here. The reasons I'm not voting for it, aside from my earlier post are.

1. The relationship that we have with management WILL change, make no mistake about that. For example: If you have a pay discrepency without a union you simply call up crew support or payroll and they pay you. This happend to me a few weeks ago. They asked if I wanted it mailed to me or just put on my next check. I chose the latter. If you have a union then you have to go thru them. It takes weeks if not months before you see your money. That is a literal change that will take place. The other change will become more (than it already is) us against them. The teamwork that we have will go out the window, I've seen this at other carriers whether its Mesa or Continental.

2. What if we get alpa and a few years down the road we collectively decide that we made a mistake? Getting rid of a union is harder than getting rid of cancer. My apologies for the analogy but it fits. This decision will affect the future of SkyWest Airlines. I assure you that if we get the union and its for the benefit of both the employees and the company I'll be the first one to say I was wrong. I'm confident that would not be the case.

3. What are the advantages? I've asked all the Alpa guys I can this question and I can't get any good answers. Now if we were getting screwed by the company and our pay and work rules were towards the bottom that would be one thing, but their not. Some say, "well things are good now but whats to say that will remain". Thats a good point. Let me ask you this. If you've been married to your spouse for 35 years and she's (he's) treated you great the whole time do you expect that to change? No, the relationship remains as it always has. Could it change, sure it could, but you don't go out and hire the a divorce attorney based on what could happen. What if you did do that, do you think your relationship with your spouse would change? Yea, I think so too.

I'm not nearly as young as many of the guys here at Skywest, I've been around the block a few times. I've been flying for over 20 years, and married for over 16. My kids are almost grown. I'll probably retire at this airline. I have an interview at Continental but I haven't decided if I'll go if I were to get hired. (yea I know their union) I, just like the alpa guys want people to understand how important this is.

 

I think this is one of the more compelling reasons to vote for a union. The decline of the middle class - let's face it, we are all middle class - is a serious erosion of what I believe to be great in this country. I think my vote for a union will be seriously swayed becaus we need to have an equalization of labor in this country. The corporatization of America is seriously eroding many of the great aspects of America.

 

This sounds like correlations folks have made for eons. A fire started burning, and the moon was full, therefore the moon gods started the fire.

Lots of other things happened in the past few decades of record executive compensation. I'll even bet the moon was full a few times.




Calling somebody ignorant? That's not a slight?

 

Ok, now let me see if I've got this straight. Your telling me that a presidential hopefull who is worth millions and who relies on big business to pay his way into office is telling you, the middle class voter that unions are going to make a comeback? Do I need to point out the obvious here? I hate to say it but,,,,, when people run for office,,,, they'll say whatever they have to if they think it will get them elected. I'm sure when he said this he was winking at his buddies who own and run corporations.

Voting for a union will help. It will help the big business which is the Union, make more money, thus making the laboror have even less money. Its a vicious circle and it will never end.

 

I’m sure he was "winking at his buddies" who run corporations, whether or not he follows up on his promises is beside the point. The fact of the matter is the only way middle class families are going to make any sort of comeback so to speak, is with unions, period.

Are trying to tell us that unions take so much from labor that it creates this vicious circle that will never end and that unions are the reason for the shrinking of the middle class? Common , not trying to be a jerk here but you have no ground to stand on with that argument.

Six months ago I was a fence sitter on the whole issue, but I took some to time research unions and learned a lot. Sure I learned unions have problems, but I also learned how much they have done for our industry and the middle class as a whole.

 

Like I said - we've got it good here...don't vote ALPA in just because unions, in the past, have been good to workers in an anti-labor industry.

 

No I'm not saying unions take so much that they keep the middle class down. If Skywest goes union it will only amount to around half a million per year in dues. Sounds like a lot but its just one more customer for alpa. Although it seems like the guy that started Mcdonalds had the same idea. What I'm saying is that Alpa is a business just like any other business. Their "product" is a services product just like insurance. Its intangible. Their objective is to make money, period. If they have to help someone achieve something that requires their services then they'll do what they can or are willing to do to help, unless one of their other "customers" is on the other side of the fence, then it becomes "who's paying us more for our services". Please please don't rely on unions to make the future of America better, they're in it for themselves not you. I talk to so many people who want more out of life but yet they are always looking to someone else to make that happen. If you want more then go get it, your not a tree if you don't like where you are in life then move. I wanted more out of life as well,,, looked around, nobody handing me money so I went out and started my own business. It pays the bills, if I want it to pay for more then guess what I have to work harder, simple as that. If you want the unions or the government to make your life better then I suggest looking at some other countries they'll take care of you. Although it seems now that I think about it that it doesn't work very well,,, living in a socialist society. Looking back at this rant I think its a little strong, however someone who I respect very much told me this very thing long ago and I'm forever grateful. Made me get off my rear.

 

So if I vote for a union and can expect to wait 5 years for a new contract when I am no longer at Skywest how would voting for a union benefit me and most of the other pilots at Skywest. Most pilots I talk to plan on moving on to other airlines after 3-5 years. It took ASA 5 years to get a contract. So if this is the case we will pay 5 years of union dues and get nothing in return. If someone comes back and says "it's for the industry as a whole, it's for your fellow pilots, blah blah blah" I am going to puke. It would be ignorant for someone to try to say they are only thinking of the industry and not themselves or their families. People work for themselves and for their families, nobody else. So trying to convince me that me voting a union in will help my fellow pilot at some other airline who I will never meet will not cut it for me. If someone can convince me that ALPA will put money and benefits in me and my families pocket directly then I will seriously consider it. I would need this as a guarantee because 5 years of bargaining and telling me to be patient does not cut it. When I pay ALPA I expect to get something in return immediately. I don't go to the gas station give them money and have them put gas in my car 5 years later. I don't go to the store and pay for groceries and expect them to give me food 5 years later. When I pay ALPA I want something in return for my money, not an empty guarantee, not a promise someone will back me up if I violate a rule or get in trouble, I want something "hard" in return. 5 years is much too long to wait and I am sure ASA pilots will agree. I bet there are some ASA pilots who are dead and buried waiting for this contract.