ALPA is only as effective as the local leadership and the support they get from the rank and file. In reality an independent union would be led by the same local people as would work in ALPA, but find it far more difficult without the resources and clout of a national union. That is the reason FedEx and CAL both decided to merge with ALPA after struggling as independents. ALPA dues are 1.95% and and that is not enough money for a SKW MEC to function without being subsidized by ALPA and the higher revenues generated by the majors. If SKW decided to have an independent union the dues would likely have to exceed 5%. Yesterday (Oct 9th) ALPA ran an ad in USA Today urging SKW pilots to vote for ALPA. That ad was signed and endorsed by the presidents of the SWA, AMR and UPS unions. ALPA may not be perfect, but it is the best choice for pilot representation.

 

no doubt ALPA has a lot of clout and has done a lot of good things in the industry. True it was our battle against management that led to the letdown at my last job, just wanted more (probibably too much) from ALPA. ASA has had long road to get this TA and as much as i'd like to see things improve here, getting that at the expense of a huge fight at ASA wouldn't make me proud. I see a lot of pro-ALPA posts (many at my expense) - where are you on the line? haven't talked to anyone in the last 3 months that had anything positive to say about ALPA! Still on the fence here but i'll admit a little gun shy because of the QOL i had to put up at the last place i worked (ComAir). The vote just started so there's a lot of time to get it in.

 

If SkyWest had an independent union, why would their dues be 5%?

I THINK Frontier's is 1.5% and I am sure Southwest's isn't above 1.95%. I don't know what AMR pilots pay.

FLAK, the longer you are at SkyWest, the less you will fear for your job as if you were still at an ALPA carrier. Just the truth that no ALPA supporter wants to hear. I have no problem going to my chief pilot and being honest with them without the fear of termination. Whether it be a medical situation or a screw-up in the cockpit, I don't fear I will be unjustly terminated.

Why are all of these ALPA carriers, ASA, Eagle, ComAir, Trans States and Mesa losing pilots to SkyWest? Everyone says it has nothing to do with the union, and perhaps not, but if QOL was as good as ours without the union, why leave? Simple question, if the pro-ALPA people can give a decent answer without flaming I would appreciate it.

And yes, the ASA TA has me upset and considering changing my vote. However, if you figure it took them FIVE years of negotiations to get our work rules, it makes you think why vote yes? Yes the pay is better, but the other stuff included is what we got without a union. So again, why vote in a union when it isn't necessarily needed?

And their contract certainly wasn't "industry leading" as you all had wished.

 

It will for me. ASA is a similar operation owned by the same mgmt. Whatever the terms of their TA are, that will be the cap on any contract SKW pilots could ever get. If it is less than what we already have, I will pay dues to myself. If it is more than what we have, that will prove the value of ALPA.

 

The reason for higher dues is the total amount of money raised. Running a MEC is not cheap and that is why ALPA has to subsidize the regional MEC's. Regional pilots don't make enough money for 1.95% to amount to a lot. APA and the other large independents get along on a little less percentage than ALPA because they aren't out carrying a bunch of small airlines the way ALPA does.

If you think your job is secure perhaps you should talk to Don Douglas. Well maybe it will take a month or so since he will have to be retrained after his court ordered reinstatement last week. If you are not familiar he is a SLC Brasilia captain fired about 18 months ago on some trumped up accusations that a judge found to be false. Needless to say, in addition to loosing his job, he had to pay for his legal representation which was significant. If he had been under the ALPA umbrella ALPA would have taken on the financial risk of fighting an unjustified termination.

While I don't know what it is like to work for one of the other regionals you listed, I do think there has been some movement to SKW in light of the very short upgrade times lately. When things get ugly folks tend to blame the union, which I don't understand since all the union can do is respond to management's decisions. The ability of the union to be effective is proportional to the unity of the pilots. Do you think the Mesa pilots would have it better if ALPA didn't have their backside covered?

If you think SKW is looking out for you, why isn't the SKW pay at the top of the industry? Why will you be making less (adjusted for inflation) at the end of the current pay package than when it was voted on? Why will the Brasilia not have had any adjustment to pay rates for about 10 years at the end? I've heard management argue the prop rates are already at the top of the industry, but who does SKW compete against? PIH, TWF, SGU, EKO, COD and a bunch in CA.........nobody. It's a SKW Brasilia or your not going. In the northwest SKW fly's against Horizon. Their prop pilots make more than SKW. What is the justification for expecting pilots to progressively work for less?

The reason most pilots get into the airlines is because of the pay at the majors. That pay is the result of 75 years of ALPA fighting for the pay rates we all aspire to. Along the way there have been many pilots who have stuck their necks out not only for themselves, but for the pilots who would follow them. If ALPA is voted in and SKW management takes 5 years to negotiate a contract, shame on them, but they would have shown to the world their true colors. I submit to you rising tides lift all boats and SKW being organized will help to lift all regionals. If you are planning to go to the majors those pilots will do better (rising tides) if the regionals are doing better. Don't be short sighted, it's not about how long it will take SKW to get a contract, it is about the rest of your career.

 

It took us more than 3 years to get 1% plus a 5% BHO, 0 for our Bro boys, 0 retro pay, no COLA and NO QOL. ASA got improvements in all these categories. Mgmnt said that we'd only fly the CR7's for 1.5 years @ CR2 rates and then they'd reward us. Ya, 3+ years later we get a BS BHO and no COLA. It may have took ASA 5+ years but they got HUGE raises (for the most part); CR2 Yr 18 CA went from 82 to 99, that's a 17.2% raise which bests our by more than 5%. Don't forget they got $13.5M in retro pay. Do the math and that works out for be about $60 a month per year of serve for each pilot (this is a very rough estimate based upon my mathematical system).

$13.5M / 1700 pilots X an average of 11 years of serve per pilot X 12 months in a year = $60.10

$13.5M / ((1700) X (11 x 12)) = 60.1

So that's $60 per month or $721.20 per year or $7,212 per decade of serve. A 15 year CA stands to get more than $10,800.

What did we get? I'd gladly have waited another year or two for another 3% to 4%, QOL, COLA and some retro. Even after ASA pilots pay their 2% they’ll still make more than us.

BTW, I’m sure they’re W2’s next year will show their new TA to be an industry leading contract. We'll have to fight just to get what they'll have and each time they'll better us plus get retro.

 

its definitly been interesting to watch as this unfolded for the last several months. that 1% pay raise thing last year at skw was the source of all my anger about that place. i think ive got it all out of my system and can go back to being rational again, so ill no longer criticize skw mgt for that or skw pilots for voting it in, nor will i take such an opposing stance for those who are anti-alpa there. im officially over it (and im sorry i angered so many skw guys including a lot of my old buddies there, i think my anonymity on this board was lost a long time ago )

ASA pilots deserve everything they worked for. theyre highly profitable and those that stuck it out there will hopefully reap the benefits that the TA should bring.

I really dont think youll see skywest pilots rise up and try to match their payrates (except maybe 1st year pay but that would be initiated by the company and not the pilot group). The reason for that is the alpa vote will most likely fail, and the current pay policy at skw is not negotiable till 2011 or so? i mean theyll still get the 1% every year and all that, but what im saying is the company has no obligation to even consider talking about pay until then because the pilots voted it in. I also dont think youll see any hostility or resentment between SKW pilots and ASA pilots over this. Their similarities start and stop with the name Skywest, Inc. Aside from that, they could care less about each other.

 

Well said!

Go Cowboys! & Hookem' Horns!

 

As someone pointed out before the 70 seat pay rates are horrible. I hope the 50 seat guys can look beyond their personal gaines and see that after 5 years the senior guys deserve the same increase. I say turn the TA down, 5 years deep, no need to B*tch up now

 

I had a nice 3 hour leg to digest the NOTES on the TA. Obviously, no actual contract is available to read.

I don't see a slam dunk for ALPA on this one. I didn't read through and go, "WOW !" It was kinda sad to actually put in writing about loosing planes.

We've read on this very forum from those who proclaimed, "ASA will never get a contract until the SKW vote it over", and obviously they were wrong.

I think this became an opportunity for JA. He didn't have to give away the company store so that ALPA could yell VICTORY to voting SkyWest pilots.