freezingflyboy

Amen bears! Its completely ludicrous. Maybe I should go boil some water and pour it on myself and then sue Maytag for making the stove!

rickair7777

I hope you guys are kidding and are not actually that ignorant. I agree it is totatally ludicrous from the standpoint of fairness and reasonableness, but plaintiff's attornys are interested in only ONE thing and it's NOT fairness. Juries don't know sh*t about aviation, so they can be easily led astray. After all, every juror DOES know that all pilots are reckless thrill-seekers who endanger themselves and the public on a daily basis...

I'm not a lawyer and am not giving legal advice, just throwing out my thoughts here: If you're a starving CFI just starting out, don't worry about it. You'll get named in the lawsuit, have a $5 million verdict entered against you, but all you have to do is declare bankruptcy and get on with your life. They have to leave you with basic necesseties, so you get to keep your 1987 Honda civic and your TV set. It's older, more established folks who have houses and other assets who need to be VERY careful...

http://www.genebenson.com/Articles/liability_part_3.htm

http://www.geocities.com/cfidarren/r-cfiliability.htm

This article is interesting to me, because MY first solo cross-country could have ended in exactly the same manner due to unexpected reduced vis:
http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_02a.../186416-1.html

freezingflyboy

What I meant by ludicrous was that it is completely idiotic that it is legal and acceptable to crash your airplane and then have you or your family turn around and sue the CFI that gave you a BFR 10 years ago. Im a CFI myself and I know the liability exists. If I signed a guy off for a BFR and then he didnt fly again until the last day before his currency runs out and then he decides to take his buddy up and they end up lawn-darting it into some old ladies house who then has a heart attack and dies, I am going to be very irritated if a lawyer comes knocking on my door. As far as I am concerned when I signed his BFR he was current and safe (or else I wouldn't have signed it!) What he does in the intervening 2 years before his next one is due is his business and he is responsible for his actions. Now wether or not that holds up in a court of law...

aspiring_pilot

im sure we all remember the multi million dollar award to the dumb skank who spilled FRESH (obviously hot) COFFEE ON HER LAP as she left the mcdonalds drive thru and proceeded to get in a wreck.

gg america

Blackhawk

Of the links you list, only one has a specific case of an actual lawsuit, and that entails a student pilot on a solo cross country. In that case, yes, you had better be VERY careful. Most flight schools and CFIs that I know have high weather minimums for solo cross country flights as the PIC is a "student" pilot, not a private pilot and the CFI therefore carries more responsibility.
Any specific examples of a CFI being held to task for a BFR or ICC sign off, or some other sign off for other than a student pilot? Again, I'm not looking for "I heard from a friend..." or "I read it might happen...", I'm looking for specific examples. Not to say you might not be the first, but this goes back to CFIs charging reasonable rates so they can pay for liability insurance.

rickair7777

The 141 CP (and former DPE) at the last flight school I worked had three lawsuits pending, one of which had dragged out over 7 years . That was why he gave up DPE. One lawsuit was IMC fatality related ($$$). Another involved a aircraft destroyed on landing, the insurance company paid out, then went after the CFI and DPE. Not sure what the third one was about. OK, this was in California, so your risk is probably lower in say Tennessee

But the point I'm making is if you have assets, make sure you are protected! And IPC's are the riskiest endorsement to give, because you just turned somebody loose in the most hazardous aspect of private GA.

If you have any doubts, and if this is more than an academic question (ie you really have something to lose) talk to your local DPE. Those guys know all about it...

Blackhawk

Do you have the cases? Again, I'm looking for more than "I heard...", but specific case law.

rickair7777

Sorry, but I'm sure the guy doesn't want his name posted here, he's still working in the industry. I'm also sure he wasn't lying to my face about any of it. There's probably plenty of info on google, or if you really need to know call an aviation law firm...

Blackhawk

I tried the Google when this subject first came up. I came up with articles on "What might happen", but no case law- which is normally public record.
I am again reminded of a NTSB hearing i attended. An instructor commented to the NTSB that he probably should not have signed off a captain, and would not have except that he thought the captain would fly on the line with an instructor first (this was the days when an air carrier could be 135/121 and 135 IOE rules are/were... vague). The captain did not fly with an instructor first, and flew into a ridge line when a role reversal took place in the cockpit (FO started to take control). Make a long story short, this is NOT something you want to say at an NTSB hearing. This instructor was lucky the widow of the captain was old school and did not sue him and FSI.

SoFloFlyer

Reviving this thread as a reminder of where we were as an industry and where we are now. Keep your head up guys and gals. Things will get better. Hoping no one needs to be a CFI for 3000 hour because of covid though lol