3000 Hour CFI
12-30-2020 | 12:06 PM
#81
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 277
Likes: 31
This is absolutely correct. Everyone has their own situation and their own tolerances for what they can handle. I left a pretty stable 6 figure career to chase a long time dream of being an airline pilot at 35 years old. Now, two years later at 37 I have almost 1700 hours, 1000 of which is turbine, was a CFI/CFII, FO and Captain at a 135 carrier till they cut the pay so much it became unsustainable. Now I’m delivering packages for FedEx making more than I made as a Captain and desperately trying to get back to my old career field (something made more complicated by a now inactive security clearance).
For me, I knew the first year and a half to two years were going to be rough, and I planned for it. I did not however expect it to go beyond two years with no light at the end of the tunnel. I of course knew there would be downturns, but figured I’d at least be a couple years into a regional before one hit. I’m single without any kids and I suppose I could keep toughing it out and living in the red dipping into an ever dwindling savings each month but I kind of hit the wall where I said enough is enough. I loved aviation just as much as the next guy, I lived and breathed it, hell I still do but for me personally anyways, it’s just not worth it anymore. If i was 22, or hell even 27 I might be more willing to try and power through it, but now I’m inching up to 40 and it appears that I’ll be stuck making sub 50k a year pay for quite a while, after essentially living in poverty the last two - not sustainable, but I certainly admire those who tough it out. I’ll never stop flying but I do believe I’m probably done flying for a living.
For me, I knew the first year and a half to two years were going to be rough, and I planned for it. I did not however expect it to go beyond two years with no light at the end of the tunnel. I of course knew there would be downturns, but figured I’d at least be a couple years into a regional before one hit. I’m single without any kids and I suppose I could keep toughing it out and living in the red dipping into an ever dwindling savings each month but I kind of hit the wall where I said enough is enough. I loved aviation just as much as the next guy, I lived and breathed it, hell I still do but for me personally anyways, it’s just not worth it anymore. If i was 22, or hell even 27 I might be more willing to try and power through it, but now I’m inching up to 40 and it appears that I’ll be stuck making sub 50k a year pay for quite a while, after essentially living in poverty the last two - not sustainable, but I certainly admire those who tough it out. I’ll never stop flying but I do believe I’m probably done flying for a living.
Kudos to you for making a difficult decision with a good attitude.
12-31-2020 | 02:52 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,174
Likes: 157
This a really good post. I'm 40 with 1300 hours and 135 job offer in a Caravan on the table. I'd essentially be making what I'm making now and after a year will be making more than I'm making now (accounting). I was fortunate to get this offer so do I make the leap with 3 kids and a wife at home or keep doing what I'm doing? It's hard to stay put in the office because I don't know another offer like this will come along in this market and I'm not getting any younger to make this happen. Very conflicted because I really wanted this for my future.
Kudos to you for making a difficult decision with a good attitude.
Kudos to you for making a difficult decision with a good attitude.
Do I think things will eventually be great again, I do, however, the timeline for that is anyone's guess, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The question comes down to whether you can hang on long enough at FO pay for the 135 outfits. I would budget two years out, if that is something you can live off in your situation at this 135, perhaps it is doable, if not, well I think you see where we are going here.
12-31-2020 | 12:37 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
I love it how some here say it happens every 8 to 10 years. From 2001 to 2008 is 7 years. From 2008 to 2020 is 12 years. Let’s see, 2001 minus 10 years is 1991. Don’t recall, what happened then? 1991 minus 10 years would be 1981. What happened then? Refresh my memory.
2001 was the twin towers being destroyed, many people did not fly. 2008 was the mortgage bubble (lying about income to get mortgages with no proof of income) and Mark to market causing a recession. Also the flying mandatory retirement went up from 60 to 65. The major airlines had a major consolidation that contributed to the lost decade. Don’t see those two things happening again. 2020 was the worst plague in a century, except for the Asian flu in 1958 and the Hong Kong flu in 1968. I forget, did we have across the board pilot furloughs in those years?
Of course there will be black swan events in the future, but I reject the idea they occur every 8 to 10 years, as though they are related.
2001 was the twin towers being destroyed, many people did not fly. 2008 was the mortgage bubble (lying about income to get mortgages with no proof of income) and Mark to market causing a recession. Also the flying mandatory retirement went up from 60 to 65. The major airlines had a major consolidation that contributed to the lost decade. Don’t see those two things happening again. 2020 was the worst plague in a century, except for the Asian flu in 1958 and the Hong Kong flu in 1968. I forget, did we have across the board pilot furloughs in those years?
Of course there will be black swan events in the future, but I reject the idea they occur every 8 to 10 years, as though they are related.
01-09-2021 | 05:07 AM
#85
Line Holder
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Regionals will be hiring again before anybody else, which is the logical next step for you CFIs out there. You've already committed a massive amount of time, money and hard work to obtain the necessary ratings. Pulling the plug right now imo would be the worst decision you could make. Ride the wave and weather the storm.
Individuals commit the sunk cost fallacy when they continue a behavior or endeavor as a result of previously invested resources (time, money or effort) (Arkes & Blumer, 1985). This fallacy, which is related to loss aversion and status quo bias, can also be viewed as bias resulting from an ongoing commitment.For example, individuals sometimes order too much food and then over-eat just to “get their money’s worth”. Similarly, a person may have a $20 ticket to a concert and then drive for hours through a blizzard, just because she feels that she has to attend due to having made the initial investment. If the costs outweigh the benefits, the extra costs incurred (inconvenience, time or even money) are held in a different mental account than the one associated with the ticket transaction (Thaler, 1999).
Research suggests that rats, mice and humans are all sensitive to sunk costs after they have made the decision to pursue a reward (Sweis et al., 2018).
Arkes, H. R., & Blumer, C. (1985), The psychology of sunk costs. Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 35, 124-140.
Sweis, B. M., Abram, S. V., Schmidt, B. J., Seeland, K. D., MacDonald, A. W., Thomas, M. J., & Redish, A. D. (2018). Sensitivity to “sunk costs” in mice, rats, and humans. Science, 361(6398), 178-181.
Thaler, R. H. (1999). Mental accounting matters. Journal of Behavioral Decision Making, 12, 183-206.
If you absolutely cannot pay your bills then pick up a side gig but you need to stay current for when the ship rights itself. I'm not generally an optimist but I do think we are close to the light at the end of the tunnel. And when you do get on with an airline, keep the CFI current.
01-14-2021 | 05:20 AM
#86
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: to the right of left
$50K wow man you must have some serious students or something. I worked for one of the biggest flight schools in the nation (we flew almost 65,000 hours last year) and I was a Turbine instructor in a King Air Flew about 150 hours a month and only turned 40K last year. However I do know someone that has been instructing his whole life and actually holds the world record for time in pistons I hear (He has about 34,000 hours in them), and every day he comes in smiling like he just hit the powerball so yes your right it might be for some people. Yet I know its not for me 
01-14-2021 | 08:52 AM
#87
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 788
Likes: 0
that is a record I have no desire to break
01-14-2021 | 09:01 AM
#88
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,127
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
01-14-2021 | 09:21 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,682
Likes: 167
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