Who likes their job?
11-18-2008 | 02:04 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 184
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That is one of the things that scares me about the airline industry. The instability. But, as I stated in an earlier post, there are thousands being laid off everyday, it seems, in non aviation careers, thus stability is really hard to find right now, in almost any career.
You may be done with it, and ready to move on ... but, remember that you will probably get your upgrade back sooner, rather than later. In the coming years, as retirement once again becomes a factor, and as the economy recovers, and hopefully, oil stays low, there will once again be a lot of movement, which means you will probably have more stability, in at least keeping your captain position, and potentially, an opportunity to move on to the majors.
Obviously it is up to you, but I have found that those who stick it out during the harder times, often times land themselves in a much better position, when times improve. If, however, you have made the decision to leave, and it is final, I wish you all the best.
You may be done with it, and ready to move on ... but, remember that you will probably get your upgrade back sooner, rather than later. In the coming years, as retirement once again becomes a factor, and as the economy recovers, and hopefully, oil stays low, there will once again be a lot of movement, which means you will probably have more stability, in at least keeping your captain position, and potentially, an opportunity to move on to the majors.
Obviously it is up to you, but I have found that those who stick it out during the harder times, often times land themselves in a much better position, when times improve. If, however, you have made the decision to leave, and it is final, I wish you all the best.
One of the benefits you're really going to enjoy Dan is a seniority based award system. If you're senior enough to hold a good schedule, you can hold it, if you're senior enough to upgrade, you can upgrade. There really aren't any questions asked on that, which can be a definite plus to "planning" your future. On the contrary, seniority also means that if you're junior, you get furloughed, and if you're junior as a captain you get downgraded.
I would never try to be the "rain" on someones parade, but as i stated in a different thread, i'm pretty sure i'm done with the industry. There were many factors involved, but my choice seems to work for me, and i wouldn't try to pass that on to someone else.
One of the negatives that really got to me, was while i was making good $$ as a regional captain i also found myself trying to stash most of it away for a rainy day. Knowing the general instability of the industry, the thought that hiring could slow down at any moment, that advancing in seniority could come to a stand still, and being on the verge of the Captain/First Officer cutoff made my spending rather thrifty. Thankfully, the somewhat thrifty spending habits allowed me to take the downgrade without toooo much suffering...but it's still tight.
I can remember having a conversation with an FO once, about how terrible it is for people who were leaving our airline and headed to their next job, where they were making 30k/yr. These were people with families, mortgages, cars, lifestyles, etc. Her response was to laugh, then say "it's all their fault for getting themselves in over their heads". As far as i've been concerned, while it might be ill advised to waste your money on five rolexes, and a diamond studded collar for your lab. We, as individuals should be working to live, not living to work. One of our biggest joys is the QOL we're fighting for, which is our time off. If you're living in a shanty for the sake of not taking a financial "hit" when you finally get the chance to move up to a major airline, then what type of QOL is it that we're trying to achieve...If a professional has a desire to drive a nice car, own a nice home, exercise, sight see, etc...then that individuals chosen profession should be on in which they can enjoy those desires...without the aspects we enjoy, all QOL is a moot point.
I would never try to be the "rain" on someones parade, but as i stated in a different thread, i'm pretty sure i'm done with the industry. There were many factors involved, but my choice seems to work for me, and i wouldn't try to pass that on to someone else.
One of the negatives that really got to me, was while i was making good $$ as a regional captain i also found myself trying to stash most of it away for a rainy day. Knowing the general instability of the industry, the thought that hiring could slow down at any moment, that advancing in seniority could come to a stand still, and being on the verge of the Captain/First Officer cutoff made my spending rather thrifty. Thankfully, the somewhat thrifty spending habits allowed me to take the downgrade without toooo much suffering...but it's still tight.
I can remember having a conversation with an FO once, about how terrible it is for people who were leaving our airline and headed to their next job, where they were making 30k/yr. These were people with families, mortgages, cars, lifestyles, etc. Her response was to laugh, then say "it's all their fault for getting themselves in over their heads". As far as i've been concerned, while it might be ill advised to waste your money on five rolexes, and a diamond studded collar for your lab. We, as individuals should be working to live, not living to work. One of our biggest joys is the QOL we're fighting for, which is our time off. If you're living in a shanty for the sake of not taking a financial "hit" when you finally get the chance to move up to a major airline, then what type of QOL is it that we're trying to achieve...If a professional has a desire to drive a nice car, own a nice home, exercise, sight see, etc...then that individuals chosen profession should be on in which they can enjoy those desires...without the aspects we enjoy, all QOL is a moot point.
11-18-2008 | 02:30 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
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Thanks very much for your insight... I appreciate all the info and points you make...
About me and my situation... well I'm 24, and need to try some new things before it gets too late... (Kids, mortgage, old age, etc)
I just can't stomach the idea that all of my future will involve cubicles, staff meetings, and high school like office politics... I've been doin this since age 20, and haven't enjoyed my QOL at all. I actually worked more hours and went to college still and enjoyed my life way more back then.. That's saying alot.
Not to mention I love airliners... They are amazing machines, and people just don't appreciate them nearly enough. I can actually sit at the threshold of the runway and just watch them go over my head all day. Of course I have my PPL as well, so I know I enjoy actually flying already as well... It was by far the most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life. The only think that held me back was the color vision problem I have... But since I am only a borderline case (and passed my first class with no restrictions this time) and researched the hell out of my options, then I think I am good to go...
About me and my situation... well I'm 24, and need to try some new things before it gets too late... (Kids, mortgage, old age, etc)
I just can't stomach the idea that all of my future will involve cubicles, staff meetings, and high school like office politics... I've been doin this since age 20, and haven't enjoyed my QOL at all. I actually worked more hours and went to college still and enjoyed my life way more back then.. That's saying alot.
Not to mention I love airliners... They are amazing machines, and people just don't appreciate them nearly enough. I can actually sit at the threshold of the runway and just watch them go over my head all day. Of course I have my PPL as well, so I know I enjoy actually flying already as well... It was by far the most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life. The only think that held me back was the color vision problem I have... But since I am only a borderline case (and passed my first class with no restrictions this time) and researched the hell out of my options, then I think I am good to go...
11-18-2008 | 02:33 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
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Oh, and as far as instability goes, I know firsthand what it's like. I work in IT for Christ sake... Average lifespan of less than 5 years at a company. Not to mention my companies stock went from 35.55 to 4.94 in less than a year... I'm facing a strong layoff possibility now... and no possibility at getting called back period... just put on the street
11-18-2008 | 04:15 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
From: Out
Oh, and as far as instability goes, I know firsthand what it's like. I work in IT for Christ sake... Average lifespan of less than 5 years at a company. Not to mention my companies stock went from 35.55 to 4.94 in less than a year... I'm facing a strong layoff possibility now... and no possibility at getting called back period... just put on the street
11-18-2008 | 06:48 PM
#55
Gets EVERY weekend off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
From: SIC
The other bad thing i've noticed for many friends and co-workers...is going from a 20k/yr regional FO job, to furloughed, to 20k/yr FO job, with the potential for another furlough on the horizon.
That'd would be a very disheartening place to be in...however, some will endure it, and i wish everyone who has to the most sincere best of luck.
11-18-2008 | 07:12 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
From: Hotel
Thanks very much for your insight... I appreciate all the info and points you make...
About me and my situation... well I'm 24, and need to try some new things before it gets too late... (Kids, mortgage, old age, etc)
I just can't stomach the idea that all of my future will involve cubicles, staff meetings, and high school like office politics... I've been doin this since age 20, and haven't enjoyed my QOL at all. I actually worked more hours and went to college still and enjoyed my life way more back then.. That's saying alot.
Not to mention I love airliners... They are amazing machines, and people just don't appreciate them nearly enough. I can actually sit at the threshold of the runway and just watch them go over my head all day. Of course I have my PPL as well, so I know I enjoy actually flying already as well... It was by far the most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life. The only think that held me back was the color vision problem I have... But since I am only a borderline case (and passed my first class with no restrictions this time) and researched the hell out of my options, then I think I am good to go...
About me and my situation... well I'm 24, and need to try some new things before it gets too late... (Kids, mortgage, old age, etc)
I just can't stomach the idea that all of my future will involve cubicles, staff meetings, and high school like office politics... I've been doin this since age 20, and haven't enjoyed my QOL at all. I actually worked more hours and went to college still and enjoyed my life way more back then.. That's saying alot.
Not to mention I love airliners... They are amazing machines, and people just don't appreciate them nearly enough. I can actually sit at the threshold of the runway and just watch them go over my head all day. Of course I have my PPL as well, so I know I enjoy actually flying already as well... It was by far the most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life. The only think that held me back was the color vision problem I have... But since I am only a borderline case (and passed my first class with no restrictions this time) and researched the hell out of my options, then I think I am good to go...
Let me say, however, that if all you have is your private right now and flying is still new to you, there is no way you can fathom the day to day rote grind of airline flying. It has so very little in common with what you are used to. It is like an entirely different animal than general aviation flying.
I wish I could reach into my skull and pull out the bundle of experiences that I have in this industry and share them with you. There is nothing that I or anyone can say that will convince you that it just isn't what it is cracked up to be.
Airliners are pretty cool. But you'll never bank beyond 30 degs again, will never fly any sort of 'maneuver' again, will never really navigate again (hitting DTO some fix doesn't count), etc. Every flight is identical to the last and to the next.
The views are pretty cool. That I must admit.
Check out this post that I wrote a couple weeks ago:
PassionAviator Blog Archive The world by the balls! (long)
11-18-2008 | 08:25 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,847
Likes: 10
You can make the job as challenging and rewarding as possible...don't call for the A/P, kill the F/D, hand-fly an approach to min's...
11-18-2008 | 08:38 PM
#58
Gets EVERY weekend off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
From: SIC
I do my best to do all of the above. Normally autopilot comes on when there's no more turns for the next hundred miles or so, or if i'm still enjoying the view and the control, i'll let her go till FL180. Auto pilot off when i'm going to do a visual approach, or instrument approach and i feel the workload is low enough i won't be to distracted. honestly speaking, for myself, the flying hasn't gotten old (although there are legs i wish i could just jump out of the plane) but the lifestyle has been very very slowly wearing on me....After reading Bryris' long article before this....i think he feels the same thing.
11-18-2008 | 08:50 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
Likes: 0
From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
To each his own, man. Not everyone is cut out for the job nor will everyone enjoy it. I still enjoy the challenge after, ummmmm, 28 years, give or take. They keep adding stuff like FMC's, ACARS, autolands, GPS, ect. Keeps it interesting. I spend half my time away from home but most people see it as a paid vacation. Sometimes, not that often, but sometimes, I have to agree...
11-18-2008 | 09:30 PM
#60
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
I can't speak for the airline side of things because I haven't been able to break into the airline world. After my experiences as a flight instructor and becoming more educated and informed about the multitude of aviation jobs out there I am not even sure whether I am interested in flying for a regional. But the one thing I have realized is that my job is incredible. I still love the feeling of lifting off the ground and the satisfaction of safely returning. I have worked a myriad of jobs from test driving cars (which was really fun, but VERY unstable) to selling cell phones (which was not so much fun). I don't think most of the whiners of this thread have REALLY worked before if they are complaining about a flying job. I am still instructing and have been doing so for nearly 2 years. For 13 months of those 2 years I had no scheduled days off, worked from 8-20 hour days, sat inside poorly vented 1970's 172s in the Phoenix 110-120 degree summer and inoperative janitrol Seminoles in the winter, made right around 20 thousand dollars, and loved nearly every second of it. There are days when you dread climbing into the cockpit for that third or fourth flight of the day, but they are FAR outweighed by the days when it is a blast. There is so much knowledge to be learned and so many challenges to overcome in aviation that I don't ever think that it will ever become mundane. EVERY industry has its pros and cons, but this one has offered an overwhelmingly lopsided winner.
Most of the whiners of this thread in my opinion also have families. This is NOT a job/career that makes having a family easy. It requires selfishness and the ability to be away from home for extended periods of time. This should be understood BEFORE committing to aviation. In fact I consider it to be irresponsible for someone who has a family to try and break into aviation if they are needed at home or want to be home more often than not.
This is the end of my rant, but it makes me very upset when people complain about something but take no action to improve the situation.
To each his own, but if this industry is not for you, get out. I'm sick of hearing how crappy our jobs are. A positive attitude works wonders.
Most of the whiners of this thread in my opinion also have families. This is NOT a job/career that makes having a family easy. It requires selfishness and the ability to be away from home for extended periods of time. This should be understood BEFORE committing to aviation. In fact I consider it to be irresponsible for someone who has a family to try and break into aviation if they are needed at home or want to be home more often than not.
This is the end of my rant, but it makes me very upset when people complain about something but take no action to improve the situation.
To each his own, but if this industry is not for you, get out. I'm sick of hearing how crappy our jobs are. A positive attitude works wonders.
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