Skywest and ASA guys a serious question
05-17-2008 | 07:06 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
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But there is something very interesting here, and I know SKYW has NOT done this on purpose. But by having now a third separate pilot group, it makes a Whipsaw seem much much much more possible. I dont think alot of XJT guys are going to sign off on that.[/QUOTE]
The ALPA pilots at ASA will refuse to be whipsawed against other alpa pilots belonging to the same corporation. The truth of it is that if either group was merged ASA or XJT, SKW would be a union airline. The 35% at SKW and either the ASA or XJT groups would give enough of a percentage to make SKW inc entirely union. However, I think skywest inc knows it will eventually have Skywest as a union airline. Think about how much money they would save in overhead if they consolidated the three groups. Now Tony I know your left nutt just exploded but you have to think that three airlines consolidated would save the company much more money then what they might "lose" having only skywest nonunion.
The ALPA pilots at ASA will refuse to be whipsawed against other alpa pilots belonging to the same corporation. The truth of it is that if either group was merged ASA or XJT, SKW would be a union airline. The 35% at SKW and either the ASA or XJT groups would give enough of a percentage to make SKW inc entirely union. However, I think skywest inc knows it will eventually have Skywest as a union airline. Think about how much money they would save in overhead if they consolidated the three groups. Now Tony I know your left nutt just exploded but you have to think that three airlines consolidated would save the company much more money then what they might "lose" having only skywest nonunion.
05-17-2008 | 07:53 AM
#33
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,149
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Skywest has millions in the bank. INc. is making money. Why would their pilots want to go and flush all that down the drain to try and cater to xjt pilots.? Most pilots want movement not DOH with a company bleeding money all over the country. What are you bringing to the table besides debt and a lot of pilots who want a handout. Sounds like a liberal democrat wish list.
I don't go to your church and I am not related to you. YOUR not my brother. Collective group pilot or not. Don't include OO pilots in YOUR wish list.
Comair never lined up and merged with ASA. You chose the company you fly for not me or anyone else. Don't try and ride the Skywest coat tails of success and think you should deserve anything close to DOH. To think any xjt pilot should even be able to bid into one of Skywest pilots bases is absurd. Again, If you chose xjt you chose IAH, EWR, and Cleveland. Your not entitled to bid on SBA or PDX or any other base.
The Cash that OO Inc. made and will make is profit from OO inc. management and current workers.
If you are bought, then plan on staying in IAH, EWR and cleveland. Don't expect any merger of seniority, You don't deserve one. If you want to battle with ASA for an ATL base and seniority there then knock yourself out.
The majority of OO pilots don't want your routes, planes or problems. Keep them for yourself.
I don't go to your church and I am not related to you. YOUR not my brother. Collective group pilot or not. Don't include OO pilots in YOUR wish list.
Comair never lined up and merged with ASA. You chose the company you fly for not me or anyone else. Don't try and ride the Skywest coat tails of success and think you should deserve anything close to DOH. To think any xjt pilot should even be able to bid into one of Skywest pilots bases is absurd. Again, If you chose xjt you chose IAH, EWR, and Cleveland. Your not entitled to bid on SBA or PDX or any other base.
The Cash that OO Inc. made and will make is profit from OO inc. management and current workers.
If you are bought, then plan on staying in IAH, EWR and cleveland. Don't expect any merger of seniority, You don't deserve one. If you want to battle with ASA for an ATL base and seniority there then knock yourself out.
The majority of OO pilots don't want your routes, planes or problems. Keep them for yourself.
My proposal (for what it's worth) was DOH with fences. That protects existing domiciles, but allows sharing the the collective wealth in the event of expansion and assures long-term pilot unity at SKW.
DOH is simple, but a realtive-seniority formula could also be used. It's more complex and subject to debate, and would not produce an end-result significantly different from DOH...unlike USAir/AWA, the three groups in question are similar in longevity.
But I actually share the opinion that XJTers who took that job AFTER the announcement of the first CAL reduction really have no "right" to great career expectations at this time...they took a job with risk and uncertaintity attached. I wish 'em the best, but I don't feel obligated to make them whole again at the expense of other pilot groups.
And as long as we're being brutally honest...a combined ASA/XJT group might have the horsepower to have their way with the SKW group. Probably best that all just try to get along from the get-go.
05-17-2008 | 08:20 AM
#34
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: B747 Left
But I actually share the opinion that XJTers who took that job AFTER the announcement of the first CAL reduction really have no "right" to great career expectations at this time...they took a job with risk and uncertaintity attached. I wish 'em the best, but I don't feel obligated to make them whole again at the expense of other pilot groups.
Originally Posted by EPIC FSR
Skywest has millions in the bank. INc. is making money. Why would their pilots want to go and flush all that down the drain to try and cater to xjt pilots.? Most pilots want movement not DOH with a company bleeding money all over the country. What are you bringing to the table besides debt and a lot of pilots who want a handout. Sounds like a liberal democrat wish list.
I don't go to your church and I am not related to you. YOUR not my brother. Collective group pilot or not. Don't include OO pilots in YOUR wish list.
Comair never lined up and merged with ASA. You chose the company you fly for not me or anyone else. Don't try and ride the Skywest coat tails of success and think you should deserve anything close to DOH. To think any xjt pilot should even be able to bid into one of Skywest pilots bases is absurd. Again, If you chose xjt you chose IAH, EWR, and Cleveland. Your not entitled to bid on SBA or PDX or any other base.
The Cash that OO Inc. made and will make is profit from OO inc. management and current workers.
If you are bought, then plan on staying in IAH, EWR and cleveland. Don't expect any merger of seniority, You don't deserve one. If you want to battle with ASA for an ATL base and seniority there then knock yourself out.
The majority of OO pilots don't want your routes, planes or problems. Keep them for yourself.
I don't go to your church and I am not related to you. YOUR not my brother. Collective group pilot or not. Don't include OO pilots in YOUR wish list.
Comair never lined up and merged with ASA. You chose the company you fly for not me or anyone else. Don't try and ride the Skywest coat tails of success and think you should deserve anything close to DOH. To think any xjt pilot should even be able to bid into one of Skywest pilots bases is absurd. Again, If you chose xjt you chose IAH, EWR, and Cleveland. Your not entitled to bid on SBA or PDX or any other base.
The Cash that OO Inc. made and will make is profit from OO inc. management and current workers.
If you are bought, then plan on staying in IAH, EWR and cleveland. Don't expect any merger of seniority, You don't deserve one. If you want to battle with ASA for an ATL base and seniority there then knock yourself out.
The majority of OO pilots don't want your routes, planes or problems. Keep them for yourself.
05-17-2008 | 08:21 AM
#35
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,929
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From: A-320
This comes off as a bit harsh, but the underlying theme is not that unreasonable.
My proposal (for what it's worth) was DOH with fences. That protects existing domiciles, but allows sharing the the collective wealth in the event of expansion and assures long-term pilot unity at SKW.
DOH is simple, but a realtive-seniority formula could also be used. It's more complex and subject to debate, and would not produce an end-result significantly different from DOH...unlike USAir/AWA, the three groups in question are similar in longevity.
But I actually share the opinion that XJTers who took that job AFTER the announcement of the first CAL reduction really have no "right" to great career expectations at this time...they took a job with risk and uncertaintity attached. I wish 'em the best, but I don't feel obligated to make them whole again at the expense of other pilot groups.
And as long as we're being brutally honest...a combined ASA/XJT group might have the horsepower to have their way with the SKW group. Probably best that all just try to get along from the get-go.
My proposal (for what it's worth) was DOH with fences. That protects existing domiciles, but allows sharing the the collective wealth in the event of expansion and assures long-term pilot unity at SKW.
DOH is simple, but a realtive-seniority formula could also be used. It's more complex and subject to debate, and would not produce an end-result significantly different from DOH...unlike USAir/AWA, the three groups in question are similar in longevity.
But I actually share the opinion that XJTers who took that job AFTER the announcement of the first CAL reduction really have no "right" to great career expectations at this time...they took a job with risk and uncertaintity attached. I wish 'em the best, but I don't feel obligated to make them whole again at the expense of other pilot groups.
And as long as we're being brutally honest...a combined ASA/XJT group might have the horsepower to have their way with the SKW group. Probably best that all just try to get along from the get-go.
Hindsight is 20/20. And you think being strictly a Fee for departure allows you some high "career" expectation. If DAL, and UAL went belly up, where would that leave you???????? On the street??????????? so save me the BS about going there after the 69 airplanes. UAL is not looking so hot, where would SkyWest be without there contract?
To the EPIC poster we DESERVE INTEGRATED SENIORITY BECAUSE THATS WHAT HAVE IN OUR CONTRACT '04, SOMETHING NONUNION SKYWEST PILOTS KNOW NOTHING ABOUT
MAYBE IF YOUR SHORT-SIGHTED PILOT GROUP VOTES A UNION IN, YOU COULD HAVE A CLAUSE IN YOUR CONTRACT THAT SAYS "ANY AIRLINE PURCHASED WILL BE STAPLED TO THE BOTTOM OF OUR LIST", BUT YOU DON'T CAUSE YOU DON'T WANT A UNION
05-17-2008 | 08:49 AM
#36
Tuk er jerbs!
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From: B747 Left
05-17-2008 | 09:07 AM
#37
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: 787 FO
Guys I thought we could keep this civil. Some bomb-thrower spouting off does not constitute their pilot group. This why I thought it would great for SAPA XJT and ASA to sit down and begin talking before the name calling and bad feelings get so bad that we become the USAir/AmWest guys of the regional world. Now would be the time to look at the TWA/AA, UAL/Capital, NWA/DAL, and best of all the USAir/AmWest examples of what not to do and maybe find the best case example in the event of a merger/buy-out
05-17-2008 | 09:32 AM
#38
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I was one of those hired after the Branded announcement, and with all due respect (I do think you're a good poster overall), you don't have the right to tell me that I don't have a right to great career expectations. Yes it was a risk coming to XJT, but hindsight is always 20/20. I'm a pilot here now, on the XJT seniority list, with every single bit of rights that come along with that. Our contract says that seniority lists will be merged (though I agree with fences and the idea that cross-certificate bidding should be eliminated or limited), and that includes all of us hired post-Branded.
I do think that the XJT should not trade away the branded without guaranteed recall rights (with longevity) into XJT, SKW, or ASA whichever has openings first.
05-17-2008 | 09:40 AM
#39
Tuk er jerbs!
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From: B747 Left
To clarify...you don't have a right to good career expectations at this time, at the expense of other pilots. You have a right to the CAL flying as far as I'm concerned. But I don't think you have a right to displace a single ASA or SKW pilot (even one hired last week) if the branded flying goes away. That's the crux of the issue...any furloughs due to branded should happen before any integration. I think 99.9% of the SKW pilots will hold the line on that. Maybe your alpa brothers at ASA will willingly throw some of their young under the bus and help you out...go to one other their ATL LEC meetings and make a proposal to that effect.
I do think that the XJT should not trade away the branded without guaranteed recall rights (with longevity) into XJT, SKW, or ASA whichever has openings first.
I do think that the XJT should not trade away the branded without guaranteed recall rights (with longevity) into XJT, SKW, or ASA whichever has openings first.
Look, XJT pilots don't want to be "rescued" by SKW. SKW is the one who butted into our business, and undercut our contract with CAL at our expense. Want XJT bad enough? SKW has to sacrifice something too.
05-17-2008 | 09:41 AM
#40
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From: 787 FO
To clarify...you don't have a right to good career expectations at this time, at the expense of other pilots. You have a right to the CAL flying as far as I'm concerned. But I don't think you have a right to displace a single ASA or SKW pilot (even one hired last week) if the branded flying goes away. That's the crux of the issue...any furloughs due to branded should happen before any integration. I think 99.9% of the SKW pilots will hold the line on that. Maybe your alpa brothers at ASA will willingly throw some of their young under the bus and help you out...go to one other their ATL LEC meetings and make a proposal to that effect.
I do think that the XJT should not trade away the branded without guaranteed recall rights (with longevity) into XJT, SKW, or ASA whichever has openings first.
I do think that the XJT should not trade away the branded without guaranteed recall rights (with longevity) into XJT, SKW, or ASA whichever has openings first.
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