FutureATP

Hey everyone,
First time posting, long time reader on this fabulour message board. I was wondering if anyone knows what percentage of regional pilots stay with a regional carrier and retire with them, if they have ever been any pilots to do that?

FutureATP

Guess this is a mystery

Chris

I'm, um, not really sure if there's been a statistic on that sort of thing.. but I will bet you that whatever it is will steadily rise over the next few years. The legacy carriers are struggling and as a result more pilots will make the regionals a career; not most, just more.

FlyerJosh

ACA/Independence had several retirements before they closed the doors. There were a handful of captains that had come over from either AWAC and WestAir.

There will definately be more regional airline retirements in the upcoming years. Part of the reason why you haven't seen a whole bunch is because up until the industry slowed down, most regional pilots were still able to move on to the majors. Also the concept of a "feeder" airline really didn't come into very strong existance until the late 80's/early 90's so the employee groups at the regionals are no where as senior as at the major airlines.

EDPM

I think a more pertinent question would be "what percentage of regional airlines will stay in business long enough for you to reach retirement age?"

I used to fly for a regional that's now defunct. I remember a few guys saying "I'd consider staying here for the rest of my career if we get the 70 seaters." My response was "do you honestly believe this company will exist when you're 60 years old?"

Most regional airlines exist through a contractual relationship with a major airline. Lose that contract and you could find yourself in a world of hurt. Independence is the perfect example of what happens when you have a fleet of aircraft and no one paying the bills. Yes, I realize ACA chose to sever their relationship with UAL but even if they had resigned, the company would have shrunk considerably. And if UAL had not made it through their restructuring, ACA would more than likely have met the same fate.

EDPM

rickair7777

Yeah, what he said. You are MUCH better off at a company that sells tickets; that way you won't be shut down overnight by contract changes. You could still go wrong, but at least you'll see it coming years in advance.

And remember, it's like the stock market...past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

Skywest might be an exception; they used to sell tickets and have stated they would go back to that if DAL shut down. Horizon is wholly owned and is probably pretty safe too. Maybe there's others on the east coast.

Linebacker35

So Eagle would look like a steady one that you wouldnt have to worry about being shut down. It looks like they will end up having alot of pilots retire there. There are so many of them that have been there for such a long time.

rickair7777

True, good benies and you might even upgrade to AA mainline someday. But the lengthy stint as an eagle FO would make almost any other regional a better economic bet. Also Expressjet USED to be wholly owned by CAL, now they've been sold off and are getting whipsawed by their former parent...eagle could go the same way.

directbears

rickair7777,

You make some good posts on this board, and I agree with most things that you say. However, I believe I've seen you mention "upgrading to AA" more than once, and I don't like to see that type of misinformation going around, especially when they fall on naive ears of airline pilot newbies and wanabies.

The flow-through (which I'm assuming you are referencing) is DEAD. I believe the agreement ends next year, and while I have been an ex-Eagle pilot for only about 5 months now, I doubt the general consensus regarding the flow agreement has changed within both groups at AMR (i.e. Eagle and AA). No one really wants to keep it. AA guys (and TWA guys for that matter) don't want Eagle pilots on their property anymore than Eagle pilots wanted AA flow backs on theirs. The agreement NEVER worked as it was supposed to, and last I heard everyone wanted it to die.

So for anyone that is looking to go to Eagle; first I'd say just don't go. IMHO the place is a career killer, unless you WANT to stay at that regional the rest of your life and have no ambition for bigger and better things. Second, DO NOT listen to anyone that touts the "flow agreement" between AA and Eagle. It didn't work, doesn't work, and will never work for the Eagle pilot group. I'm not absolute with the figures, but I believe only a little over 100 pilots actually flowed up to AA when there should have been something like 600+ to flow. Both AA and Eagle management screwed the pilot group. Some of whom stayed at Eagle, passing up other opportunities, because they thought they would actually flow up to AA. Now that will never happen for them. Also, the agreement bit Eagle FOs in the a** because the AA pilots (and TWA pilots contrary to the contract) flowed down into Eagle. The number was something like 400 or 500 last I heard. That's a huge difference when you look at how many pilots flowed up to AA. This put a severe hardship on the Eagle FOs (and one of the main reasons I left) because they will not see an upgrade for 5, 10, or more years (IMHO) because a "flow back" occupies their seat on the left side of the aircraft.

Anyway, rickair I appreciate your input, but please refrain from dispersing false or distorted info regarding the AA-Eagle flow agreement.

Linebacker35

Well if its 400 or 500 AA pilots that flowed down, wouldnt that mean when AA starts hiring again Eagle will need to replace 400 to 500 captains over a certain period of time. I would think upgrade time would drop alot once AA starts hiring back all their pilots there.