XJT finally gets some good news
06-05-2008, 08:21 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
Originally Posted by G-Dog
Chins,
You may be right, but lets just say that CAL want 100 planes back. XJet can say no. CAL then says, well those planes will not fly for us. Then XJet pays on a parked plane or has to find a new home for that plane. Am I correct on this? If I am correct, we know how the whole find a new home for the planes thing is working(ie. branded).
My point is, just cause XJET has first right of refusal, this does not put them in a power position.
Like it has been said in the past, CAL will not drop Xjet at will. There is no one who could pick up the slack on short notice. I would say Xjet guys are pretty safe, for now.
You may be right, but lets just say that CAL want 100 planes back. XJet can say no. CAL then says, well those planes will not fly for us. Then XJet pays on a parked plane or has to find a new home for that plane. Am I correct on this? If I am correct, we know how the whole find a new home for the planes thing is working(ie. branded).
My point is, just cause XJET has first right of refusal, this does not put them in a power position.
Like it has been said in the past, CAL will not drop Xjet at will. There is no one who could pick up the slack on short notice. I would say Xjet guys are pretty safe, for now.
your forgetting that if CAL pulls one more airframe then we are no longer restricted by the Most Favorable nation clause in our contract. Which limits us to 10 airframes under a CPA, if we go above 10 and we are giving that carrier a better deal then CAL we have to match that deal for all of our flying for CAL. SO we havent been able to get any more then 10 airplanes for another airline and havent been able to bid on any flying larger then 10 airplanes. our 25 now for delta (10 cpa and 15 now under pro-rate agreement). our flying currently for CAL is with a 10% profit margin and contracts with that much room for profit have been disappearing.
If CAL pulls more airplanes it might be bad in the short term for our pilots but in the long term we will actually be able to bid for larger contracts and hopefully diversify into some larger sized airplanes.
06-05-2008, 08:28 AM
#42
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by newarkblows
your forgetting that if CAL pulls one more airframe then we are no longer restricted by the Most Favorable nation clause in our contract. Which limits us to 10 airframes under a CPA, if we go above 10 and we are giving that carrier a better deal then CAL we have to match that deal for all of our flying for CAL. SO we havent been able to get any more then 10 airplanes for another airline and havent been able to bid on any flying larger then 10 airplanes. our 25 now for delta (10 cpa and 15 now under pro-rate agreement). our flying currently for CAL is with a 10% profit margin and contracts with that much room for profit have been disappearing.
If CAL pulls more airplanes it might be bad in the short term for our pilots but in the long term we will actually be able to bid for larger contracts and hopefully diversify into some larger sized airplanes.
If CAL pulls more airplanes it might be bad in the short term for our pilots but in the long term we will actually be able to bid for larger contracts and hopefully diversify into some larger sized airplanes.
06-05-2008, 08:30 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
Watch what you say that's considered bashing the company in this neck of the woods.
Chins I understand 100% what you are saying and have known this. Yes XJT can have the planes but the company can't afford the ones they have. This pretty much means CAL can do what they want with them. If XJT starts playing hardball and someone shows up with a few 145s, ie SkyWest with newly aquired 145s, CAL can tell XJT "Fine keep the planes" so they can pull the rent in on them while contracting out to someone cheaper. But XJT can't make that move so it's up to CAL.
Chins I understand 100% what you are saying and have known this. Yes XJT can have the planes but the company can't afford the ones they have. This pretty much means CAL can do what they want with them. If XJT starts playing hardball and someone shows up with a few 145s, ie SkyWest with newly aquired 145s, CAL can tell XJT "Fine keep the planes" so they can pull the rent in on them while contracting out to someone cheaper. But XJT can't make that move so it's up to CAL.
Last edited by newarkblows; 06-05-2008 at 08:32 AM. Reason: Grammar is a *****
06-05-2008, 08:57 AM
#44
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
*XJT is a regional airline.
*We are regional pilots.
*XJT has been persued by another regional which is something of very large magnitude which can have a great impact on the rest of us in one note or another.
We made another example of having a great impact on the industry when our union stuck to its principles in not giving up our scope!
So spare me the crap about how this Skywest deal would have a great impact on everybody else. I'm done caring about these other regional airlines out there, who have consistently shown they could give two sh!ts about XJT, or XJT pilots. It's become obvious that other regionals are only looking to lower the bar at everyone's expense.
How would the Skywest deal impact us at XJT? By slowly wipsaw-ing us into oblivion! I say burn all the regionals down before it comes to XJT pilots giving up a dime! In my mind, it's XJT before anyone else.
06-05-2008, 09:35 AM
#45
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Toiletduck
You lose all credibility when you post things that are wrong. Especially when you ignore the people who call you out on it.
Post #64
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...545#post395545
06-05-2008, 09:38 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by ChinsFive
The newest XR's and LR's CAL gave up had the highest lease cost. At the end of the day it's cheaper for them to bump 100 or 200 people in a day than in is to pay the leases on the airplanes they gave back to XJT. I don't know why they kept 135's though, those can't be making money.
They haven't, therefore CAL doesn't have complete control, nor able to take planes at their will.
06-05-2008, 09:51 AM
#47
Recommend Retention
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Bigfoot
Posts: 1,077
I don't have the slightest idea why all the regional guys do this back and forth b.s. Go out there and have fun flying, or just go outside! My times at ACA/Indy Air were the most fun of my life and I worked with countless professionals and even a few douchebags to boot.
I never even knew about these forums back then and it was probably just as well. Ignorance at times is true bliss. So much of this stuff is beyond our control. I remember thinking UAL had it out for us (ACA) back then just like XJT guys seem to have some resentment for us (CAL) now. It's just business, and the more infighting there is, the more management gets an upper hand.
A plane is a plane and a publicly traded company will always look out for the shareholders over you. Boeing, Embraer, XJT, Mesa, who cares? As long as you are where you wanted to be in life, enjoy it and have respect for others who share in that passion, even if they got there faster or slower than you! If it falls apart, I assure you - something else will come along. Have a good weekend guys.
I never even knew about these forums back then and it was probably just as well. Ignorance at times is true bliss. So much of this stuff is beyond our control. I remember thinking UAL had it out for us (ACA) back then just like XJT guys seem to have some resentment for us (CAL) now. It's just business, and the more infighting there is, the more management gets an upper hand.
A plane is a plane and a publicly traded company will always look out for the shareholders over you. Boeing, Embraer, XJT, Mesa, who cares? As long as you are where you wanted to be in life, enjoy it and have respect for others who share in that passion, even if they got there faster or slower than you! If it falls apart, I assure you - something else will come along. Have a good weekend guys.
06-05-2008, 10:14 AM
#49
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by PCLCREW
If CAL is entering talkes with Xjet there gonna be looking for rock bottom prices for there service. This is what happend to us at ACA with UAL, and instead of making us all take pay cuts we started Indy Air...Great Success! But it sounds like Xjet Airlines is finished. So now when CAL comes in with some crazy low figure for Xjet it could be pay cuts systemwide for Xjet. Hopefully no furlough's.
I always have to say thanks to Mesa for setting the bar so low that major airlines think all the regionals will serve them for nothing. Thanks again Mesa.
I always have to say thanks to Mesa for setting the bar so low that major airlines think all the regionals will serve them for nothing. Thanks again Mesa.
Although the situations are different, there are A LOT of similarities. If you remember though, we DID vote in a concessionary LOA at ACA to get the FPD cost down to match that of MESA, and everybody else. The LOA was contingent on UAL awarding us flying. It wasn't till the Independence LOA that we actually took the cut.
In the end it wasn't the cost, we already agreed to get the cost down. It came down to the terms that UAL wanted in the end. All the protections in the original FPD agreement were gone. UAL would have been able to dismantle us over time, or simply kick us to the curb when they saw fit. Kinda like they did with AWAC. Only at that time, ACA was not able to secure flying for any other legacy and give UAL the bird and fly for somebody else.
Now, where it is similar. SKW put in a bid to buy XJT, just like MESA tried to buy ACA. Remember that? Remember how much that would have sucked? They would have taken up apart piece by piece. Well, that's pretty much what SKW would have done to XJT. The difference being, I don't think there will be a lawsuit filed against CAL for collusion with SKW like there was with MESA and UAL.
That was funny to watch how QUICKLY UAL washed their hands of that whole deal when suit was filed.
06-05-2008, 10:22 AM
#50
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by LifeNtheFstLne
I don't have the slightest idea why all the regional guys do this back and forth b.s. Go out there and have fun flying, or just go outside!
Good point. But do you ever read the cargo forums? Were you keeping up when the NWA/DAL thing started? It's not just "regional guys" that engage in this type banter.
When FDX was going through their FDA negotiation, they even dedicated an entire section for them. It got even WORSE when age 65 was going. It ALSO required the most moderating at the time. At least, according to a moderator.
The FACT is at the regional level, there are MORE issues. Regionals are played off against one another, doesn't happen on the same magnitude as with you mighty "legacy" pilots. If CAL was about to be bought out, and YOUR job may be in question, do you think you would be so passive and happy go lucky? Doubt it.
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