UAL's UAX flying to increase?
06-05-2008 | 08:59 PM
#81
Furlough line holder
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 0
From: CRJ2, ATR, CRJ7, E145, 737
06-05-2008 | 09:01 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
I understand your point but understand that at the time of Comair's concessions our 5th year 50 seat FO rate was almost $39/hr and our 2006 CR7/9 rate with the override (BS override) was near $41/hr. So yes Comair had the highest rates but to say that SKW was on the low side of the bell is horse......................
Actually it was MAG and RAH that hurt you guys the most while ASA and SKW were somewhat comparable to each other although they were and are still much lower than Comair's pre-concession rate.
5th Yr FO rate:
RAH - $37/hr (current rate which I believe was less in 06)
MAG - $35/hr
SKW - $39/hr (50); 41/hr (66+)
I mean no offense so don't take any, just correcting your posting with the facts.
Actually it was MAG and RAH that hurt you guys the most while ASA and SKW were somewhat comparable to each other although they were and are still much lower than Comair's pre-concession rate.
5th Yr FO rate:
RAH - $37/hr (current rate which I believe was less in 06)
MAG - $35/hr
SKW - $39/hr (50); 41/hr (66+)
I mean no offense so don't take any, just correcting your posting with the facts.
Just wondering...
06-05-2008 | 09:16 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,963
Likes: 0
From: SkyWest Capt.
That's why I called it a BS BHO (Brad Holt Override). About the only good it does is increase the total flying seeing you can now lump them all together and all RJ pilots can bid on all the pairings; this greatly increase their efficiency and their credit values as well as their commutability. It may not seem like much but it sure can improve one’s QOL.
BTW, I voted NO for the pay proposal. I wanted a CHO (Credit Hour Override) so that our pilots will get paid the override on the pairings credit value. This can easily be accomplished by using the pairings A/C identifier to set the pilot pairing pay rate. If it is a CR7 or CR9 ID pairing then all the credit (including DH's and Training) will get paid out with the override.
Last edited by JetJock16; 06-05-2008 at 09:24 PM.
06-05-2008 | 09:23 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
That's why I called it a BS BHO (Brad Holt Override). About the only good it does is increase the total flying seeing you can now lump them all together and all RJ pilots can bid on all the pairings; this greatly increase their efficiency and their credit values as well as their commutability. It may not seem like much but it sure can improve one’s QOL.
BTW, I voted NO for the pay proposal. I wanted a CHO (Credit Hour Override) so that you can get pair my pairing ID. If it is a CR7 or CR9 ID pairing then all the credit (including DH's) will get paid out with the override. This is just as easy to accomplish as the BHO is.
BTW, I voted NO for the pay proposal. I wanted a CHO (Credit Hour Override) so that you can get pair my pairing ID. If it is a CR7 or CR9 ID pairing then all the credit (including DH's) will get paid out with the override. This is just as easy to accomplish as the BHO is.
06-05-2008 | 09:30 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,963
Likes: 0
From: SkyWest Capt.
Could work and has worked but dependant on your contract it can hurt your pilot group. Just look at RAH were you can't change A/C type or Airline Certificates (Republic, Shuttle America, Chautauqua) unless you get a pay raise. Not much good that does a reservist on the CRJ who can hold a line on the EMB's. Or the Republic E-170 CA who moved to ATL for family reasons but has to commute to ORD even though SA has an E-170 base in his backyard.
But it could work with the right contractual wording and the proper variable rates that can adjust themselves over time for an increase in larger a/c flying.
But it could work with the right contractual wording and the proper variable rates that can adjust themselves over time for an increase in larger a/c flying.
Last edited by JetJock16; 06-05-2008 at 09:37 PM.
06-05-2008 | 10:00 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
I have two instances where SKW's rates didn't "help" Comair's bargaining power...
I seem to recall Comair management and the Bankruptcy Judge throwing out Comair's negotiated pay rates in 2006. They replaced them with a rate they determined by averaging the ASA, CHQ, SKW, and MAG rates for each equipment type.
The SKW and MAG numbers sure flushed the pay rate for the 70-seat guys. A 5-year 70-seat FO (yes, Comair's 5-year guys are still FOs) went from $46.99 to $36.50. Big ouch.
In addition, the next year SKW won Delta's RFP and were awarded half of Comair's 70 seat jets.
Every time you see a SKW CRJ700 numbered NxxxCA you're witnessing the benefits of a "non-negotiated, below-industry-average pay scale"
The Comair guys mostly blame Atlanta and not the SKW pilot group, but it sure gets frustrating year after year hearing:
"If you won't fly for cheaper, we'll give your planes to (fill in the blank) because their pilots will..."
Let me know if my memory is off.
I seem to recall Comair management and the Bankruptcy Judge throwing out Comair's negotiated pay rates in 2006. They replaced them with a rate they determined by averaging the ASA, CHQ, SKW, and MAG rates for each equipment type.
The SKW and MAG numbers sure flushed the pay rate for the 70-seat guys. A 5-year 70-seat FO (yes, Comair's 5-year guys are still FOs) went from $46.99 to $36.50. Big ouch.
In addition, the next year SKW won Delta's RFP and were awarded half of Comair's 70 seat jets.
Every time you see a SKW CRJ700 numbered NxxxCA you're witnessing the benefits of a "non-negotiated, below-industry-average pay scale"
The Comair guys mostly blame Atlanta and not the SKW pilot group, but it sure gets frustrating year after year hearing:
"If you won't fly for cheaper, we'll give your planes to (fill in the blank) because their pilots will..."
Let me know if my memory is off.
But to make ANOTHER point. At my former employer, we negotiated a 70 seat pay rate as the type would have come on property had we been awarded more UAX flying. Our MEC got a 70 seat rate that was on par with COMAIR's pre concessionary rate.
And guess what, they put together the charts and graphs showing the high and low. With our rate and COMAIR's rates being the high. Of course MESA'a is at the bottom, and RAH being close to ours and enough above MESA's tobe taken seriously. Well, that's when SKW agreed to fly the 70/90 for 50. What do you think that did for our MEC's ability to hold that rate?
06-06-2008 | 04:34 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Thats why I worded it the way I did. A lot of morons like to slam RAH for their rates. Should they be better? Well, it would be nice. But considering the climate their CBA was negotiated under and the state of USAir at the time (their biggest customer), they actually did pretty well for themselves.
I wish them the best this next time around. I'm sure BB is not going to want to give an inch. And with the bar set as low as it is, it will be an up hill battle for their NC.
I wish them the best this next time around. I'm sure BB is not going to want to give an inch. And with the bar set as low as it is, it will be an up hill battle for their NC.
06-06-2008 | 08:23 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 790
Likes: 0
Could work and has worked but dependant on your contract it can hurt your pilot group. Just look at RAH were you can't change A/C type or Airline Certificates (Republic, Shuttle America, Chautauqua) unless you get a pay raise. Not much good that does a reservist on the CRJ who can hold a line on the EMB's. Or the Republic E-170 CA who moved to ATL for family reasons but has to commute to ORD even though SA has an E-170 base in his backyard.
But it could work with the right contractual wording and the proper variable rates that can adjust themselves over time for an increase in larger a/c flying.
But it could work with the right contractual wording and the proper variable rates that can adjust themselves over time for an increase in larger a/c flying.
Thanks..
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
JetFlyer06
Major
16
01-20-2008 03:29 AM
