Letter from MEC Jumpseat Committee, July 8, 2008
07-10-2008, 05:05 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: IAH 320 CA
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by HercDriver130
then start flogging guppy.......had a UAL jumpseater tell my CA AFTER we were airborne "whew.... glad that shuttle fo didnt see me get the jumpseat......".... it was a 23 minute turn in ORF... NO way we could check the gate area.....the CA went ballistic... the JSer bowed up and insinuated that the planes said UNITED Express...not shuttle america on them... and he would take the JS when ever he had to over anybody.....NOW that said... Im sure that douche is an exception.... but the result was probably a shuttle pilot who didnt make his commute because of some selfish sob.
Personally I think the answer is for ALL UAX and UAL pilots to man up and work it out at the gate ....... problem is some guys are just selfish b astards. Putting the CA in the position of having to check when a JSr presents himself.... and there in lie the rub... MANY times the gate wont send a JSr down until the very last minute.... ie.... CAs not running to the gate to check....
This to will work itself out..... my only real complaint is the substandard regard UAX pilots get... in that if UAL guys were the brunt of this U can bet they would raise the dead to make UAL do something... but who said life was fair....
Personally I think the answer is for ALL UAX and UAL pilots to man up and work it out at the gate ....... problem is some guys are just selfish b astards. Putting the CA in the position of having to check when a JSr presents himself.... and there in lie the rub... MANY times the gate wont send a JSr down until the very last minute.... ie.... CAs not running to the gate to check....
This to will work itself out..... my only real complaint is the substandard regard UAX pilots get... in that if UAL guys were the brunt of this U can bet they would raise the dead to make UAL do something... but who said life was fair....
These people need to reported, PERIOD. Document who it was and report it to your jumpseat chairman or liason for you non-union types.
No excuse.
07-10-2008, 05:13 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: IAH 320 CA
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Which is "crap"? That there is no foolproof fix short of a software change, or that the UAL MEC requested the original change ? Or both?
I commute, too. I don't plan on changing that any time soon. If UAL pilots follow through with their MEC's plan, it will probably get more difficult for me. Obviously it may for you also, on Aug 1.
The issue still needs to be fixed. I personally don't care what the background is. Fix it. Soon. For you, and all UAL pilots, and for all of us.
Just saying it's tough, or difficult, or costs money... don't cut it. If we can move toward the fix, there won't be a JS issue.
Here's a simple one for you. Just answer this one question. What can any of my fellow SkyWest pilots do to fix the problem on our end ? There's plenty of suggestions, and many have a glimmer of hope, and may be good stop gap measures.
But what can we do to securely fix it ?
I commute, too. I don't plan on changing that any time soon. If UAL pilots follow through with their MEC's plan, it will probably get more difficult for me. Obviously it may for you also, on Aug 1.
The issue still needs to be fixed. I personally don't care what the background is. Fix it. Soon. For you, and all UAL pilots, and for all of us.
Just saying it's tough, or difficult, or costs money... don't cut it. If we can move toward the fix, there won't be a JS issue.
Here's a simple one for you. Just answer this one question. What can any of my fellow SkyWest pilots do to fix the problem on our end ? There's plenty of suggestions, and many have a glimmer of hope, and may be good stop gap measures.
But what can we do to securely fix it ?
The system is same system that is used for MAINLINE flights. The only thing that was inserted was jumpseat priority for express carriers for MAINLINE flights.
In order for this to be fixed, an entire new software program would need to be developed for each and every express carrier. That way, when it was SKYW, then your guys get priority, etc...etc... And guess what? United isn't going to spend the money to do that.
What can you do at SKYW? How about having your company print out forms ala SWA or LCC that a jumpseater fills out. The CSR can put the time of check in on there, and then present them all to the Captain to decide who gets to ride.
Or how about setting up a hotline for you guys to call and document problems?
I can assure you this. ANY documented case of jumpseat abuse by United pilots will be dealt with. IMMEDIATELY AND SEVERELY. It is too important for the rest of us to let a few jerkoffs screw it up for us.
07-10-2008, 05:42 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 284
I'm reminded of those Bank of Scotland ads where everyone sits around discussing the guy choking until a man at the next table gets up and takes action to fix the problem.
If the software isn't calculating correctly, stop using it. Go to a manual backup. (If your loading calculations were wrong, you'd use a manual backup. If the Takeoff data was wrong, you'd go to manual backup.) UAX can do this internally, without UAL approval.
You are letting a computer (read "tool") define how you do business. If the tool doesn't work, DONT USE IT.
You can complain (justly, Imight add) or you can actually DO something by going to UAX and stop using the computer to rank who gets the jumpseat.
If the software isn't calculating correctly, stop using it. Go to a manual backup. (If your loading calculations were wrong, you'd use a manual backup. If the Takeoff data was wrong, you'd go to manual backup.) UAX can do this internally, without UAL approval.
You are letting a computer (read "tool") define how you do business. If the tool doesn't work, DONT USE IT.
You can complain (justly, Imight add) or you can actually DO something by going to UAX and stop using the computer to rank who gets the jumpseat.
07-10-2008, 08:42 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: ERJ FO
Posts: 1,276
Originally Posted by ClipperJet
I'm reminded of those Bank of Scotland ads where everyone sits around discussing the guy choking until a man at the next table gets up and takes action to fix the problem.
If the software isn't calculating correctly, stop using it. Go to a manual backup. (If your loading calculations were wrong, you'd use a manual backup. If the Takeoff data was wrong, you'd go to manual backup.) UAX can do this internally, without UAL approval.
You are letting a computer (read "tool") define how you do business. If the tool doesn't work, DONT USE IT.
You can complain (justly, Imight add) or you can actually DO something by going to UAX and stop using the computer to rank who gets the jumpseat.
If the software isn't calculating correctly, stop using it. Go to a manual backup. (If your loading calculations were wrong, you'd use a manual backup. If the Takeoff data was wrong, you'd go to manual backup.) UAX can do this internally, without UAL approval.
You are letting a computer (read "tool") define how you do business. If the tool doesn't work, DONT USE IT.
You can complain (justly, Imight add) or you can actually DO something by going to UAX and stop using the computer to rank who gets the jumpseat.
07-10-2008, 11:37 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: EMB120 CA
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by LeeFXDWG
I know of NO UAL pilot that would have any heartburn with an online pilot getting the JS ahead of them. It is what is right. To blame the computer for a lack of supervision of the process by the Capt is wrong.
A stupid little RJ pilot.
07-10-2008, 12:13 PM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by fatmike69
Well I know of at least one, wish I took down the name of the guy who aced me out of my own jumpseat so I could introduce you two. Then I could bow down in front of you both and thank you for my precious job. Take care,
A stupid little RJ pilot.
A stupid little RJ pilot.
It wouldn't do you any good anyway. When I reported a United guy that aced me out of my JS to our JSC, the UAL's JSC didn't care and wasn't going to do a thing...
07-10-2008, 12:47 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: EMB120 CA
Posts: 299
Update: Thread just appeared from our SAPA president that it looks like the problem will be solved, but back to the old paper mode for now. Thank you to all UAL pilots that called your MEC, or whoever the powers may be, to resolve this issue. While the conference call involving all the JSC's is still going on at the present time, I have good faith that the preliminary post from our president will be accurate. Paper forms will be a hassle, but at least it buys the necessary time until the software can be fixed, and things can go back to normal.
07-10-2008, 11:01 PM
#59
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: B747 CA
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Just saying it's tough, or difficult, or costs money... don't cut it. If we can move toward the fix, there won't be a JS issue.
Here's a simple one for you. Just answer this one question. What can any of my fellow SkyWest pilots do to fix the problem on our end ?
Here's a simple one for you. Just answer this one question. What can any of my fellow SkyWest pilots do to fix the problem on our end ?
We've known for two years that UAL management wouldn't fix the problem, so what have the collective UEX pilots done since then? Nothing. It is THEIR problem. They don't have the cajones to address it with their respective managements, so their solution is to threaten the UAL pilots. It is unbelievable that they are somehow offended when the UAL pilots respond in kind. Take some freaking responsibility.
Granted, we codeshare, but we are SEPARATE companies. Apollo is an antiquated relic that is difficult to modify, but are the UEX companies creating their own software? No. Until they can convince their management companies to fix THEIR problem, the problem will not go away.
Solution: take back some Captain authority.
07-10-2008, 11:09 PM
#60
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: B747 CA
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by tzadik
i dont wanna see anyone go down but if a legacy has gotta go please let it be united... never seen such a terrible operation remain so stubborn.
NO ONE should go out of business. If United "goes down," there will be 8,000 more pilots to compete with, and fewer jobs available. Some people need to wise up and need to quit wishing for other's doom. It's your own future your toying with.
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