TSA continues it's Reign of Terror on flight crews.
07-23-2008 | 08:12 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 186
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From: Whoring for flight time
1) We have the ramp level turn-styles at bna with no "security checkpoint" but the TSA does set up camp and randomly screen employees walking through.
2) Ok holier than though pilot man, walking by the turn-style on your way into the airport doesn't mean that TSA doesn't sometimes screen people using that door. The OP did say when he got screened it was random.
3) ACEAV8R said they had seen the same random screenings for airport employees at other airports that they had TDYed at, not just their home airport.
4) It didn't appear to me that they were trying to say that CSAs have it rougher than you just pointing out that CSAs and RAMPERS do get screened and do not have un-checked access to the aircraft. The OP said he was screened when coming through a door from OPS into the terminal....this random checkpoint was set up for all people using that door not just crew...they can't just say oh well you are flight crew we don't need to screen you. The reason for being screened when going from a SIDA area into the terminal is the same reason you can't get a checked bag until you get to baggage claim, some items that can be checked (ie guns and ammunition) can't be brought into the the terminal.
5) Why should a member of a flight crew not get screened but a ramper should? Everyone who enters a secure area should be subject to screening. Although I agree some TSAers probably aren't very qualified to do it. You have more access to the aircraft than a ramper does (no body is going to tell you you can't climb into the cargo bin durring your walk around if you wanted to and you have access to the cockpit even if you are riding in the back on your own metal...you have a cockpit key).
I'm not trying to start another battle between CSAs and Pilots I just think you need to get your facts straight before you come on here and bash somebody for correcting you
2) Ok holier than though pilot man, walking by the turn-style on your way into the airport doesn't mean that TSA doesn't sometimes screen people using that door. The OP did say when he got screened it was random.
3) ACEAV8R said they had seen the same random screenings for airport employees at other airports that they had TDYed at, not just their home airport.
4) It didn't appear to me that they were trying to say that CSAs have it rougher than you just pointing out that CSAs and RAMPERS do get screened and do not have un-checked access to the aircraft. The OP said he was screened when coming through a door from OPS into the terminal....this random checkpoint was set up for all people using that door not just crew...they can't just say oh well you are flight crew we don't need to screen you. The reason for being screened when going from a SIDA area into the terminal is the same reason you can't get a checked bag until you get to baggage claim, some items that can be checked (ie guns and ammunition) can't be brought into the the terminal.
5) Why should a member of a flight crew not get screened but a ramper should? Everyone who enters a secure area should be subject to screening. Although I agree some TSAers probably aren't very qualified to do it. You have more access to the aircraft than a ramper does (no body is going to tell you you can't climb into the cargo bin durring your walk around if you wanted to and you have access to the cockpit even if you are riding in the back on your own metal...you have a cockpit key).
I'm not trying to start another battle between CSAs and Pilots I just think you need to get your facts straight before you come on here and bash somebody for correcting you
My point exactly.
07-23-2008 | 08:15 AM
#62
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 19
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Why don't you all start carrying your point and shoots with you and documenting these 'arrests'.
If you are stopped and searched, even if it is your job to fly an airplane, there is an element of 'reasonable', and if it excessive with enough photographs you could probably have a Federal claim against the tsa.
If you are stopped and searched, even if it is your job to fly an airplane, there is an element of 'reasonable', and if it excessive with enough photographs you could probably have a Federal claim against the tsa.
07-23-2008 | 08:21 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 546
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From: Reserve on tha Beach
Before I became a "high and mighty" regional pilot, I was a Ramp agent for 10 YEARS. I was NEVER molested,extra-screened,patted down, wanded, Made to take My uniform belt and shoes off bent over ,be-littled and embarrassed in front of passengers like I've been as a pilot . NOT ONCE! I had the freedom and ability to carry whatever I pleased to the SIDA. I had heard of some spot checks in the hallway that we used to BYPASS the checkpoint. Very rare indeed, And it was funny to hear the guys Rant when they had their lunchboxes and backpacks searched...Something is very wrong with the TSA, Common sense is definately Not common in that agency...
rant over..
Crewpass Now !
rant over..
Crewpass Now !
07-23-2008 | 08:32 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 349
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From: BE50C (A), BE95 (A), C172S (B)
@ Super Six Four: That SUCKS. Agreed:
CREWPASS NOW
Maybe. Maybe not.
The big problem I have is that, from a passenger perspective (and taxpayer): TSA doesn't really do anything that the private sector was doing on or before 11 September 2001. Sure, passenger screening may be more 'thorough' (a little groping, shoes off, and so forth), but the concept and process itself is still fundamentally the same—Person walks up to checkpoint, person walks through weapons detector, maybe gets patted down, and walks off. There are varying degrees of harassment, of course (3-1-1 rule for liquids), but none of it is fundamentally any different than what the private sector companies were doing on 9/11.
TSA, of course, does it a lot slower, and in a lot more expensive fashion, and aggravates just about everyone who goes through the checkpoint. TSA also overreacts to incidents (such as the whole reason behind the liquid limits—a ridiculously unfeasible plot that would've been annoying rather than actually downing the aircraft).
If TSA would revolutionize screening through magic, I'd be much happier about it. We shouldn't waste time in the terminal—air travel is SUPPOSED to be fast.
We have lost the high-power, high-paying business traveller partially because of TSA. We can't have Executives Almighty putting up with that crap, so they all bought jets of their own. (Of course, this was probably going to happen anyway.)
Compare this to going through security in, say, Finland. Laptop out, yes. Shoes off? No. Belt off? No. Liquid limits? Notta chance unless you're bound for the US, and they don't even really check that. If you happen to alarm the detector you get wanded and patted down, but the whole process takes maybe 30 seconds if they give you a second pass and is a lot less intrusive (Finns wouldn't put up with something that had their personal space *REALLY* violated, of course, so a cultural difference might explain it) and is just as effective. At HEL, you can literally be boarding your airplane 20 minutes after you step into the terminal, and they're pretty damned sure that you don't have anything dangerous on your person.
Effective? Probably.
CREWPASS NOW
The big problem I have is that, from a passenger perspective (and taxpayer): TSA doesn't really do anything that the private sector was doing on or before 11 September 2001. Sure, passenger screening may be more 'thorough' (a little groping, shoes off, and so forth), but the concept and process itself is still fundamentally the same—Person walks up to checkpoint, person walks through weapons detector, maybe gets patted down, and walks off. There are varying degrees of harassment, of course (3-1-1 rule for liquids), but none of it is fundamentally any different than what the private sector companies were doing on 9/11.
TSA, of course, does it a lot slower, and in a lot more expensive fashion, and aggravates just about everyone who goes through the checkpoint. TSA also overreacts to incidents (such as the whole reason behind the liquid limits—a ridiculously unfeasible plot that would've been annoying rather than actually downing the aircraft).
If TSA would revolutionize screening through magic, I'd be much happier about it. We shouldn't waste time in the terminal—air travel is SUPPOSED to be fast.
We have lost the high-power, high-paying business traveller partially because of TSA. We can't have Executives Almighty putting up with that crap, so they all bought jets of their own. (Of course, this was probably going to happen anyway.)
Compare this to going through security in, say, Finland. Laptop out, yes. Shoes off? No. Belt off? No. Liquid limits? Notta chance unless you're bound for the US, and they don't even really check that. If you happen to alarm the detector you get wanded and patted down, but the whole process takes maybe 30 seconds if they give you a second pass and is a lot less intrusive (Finns wouldn't put up with something that had their personal space *REALLY* violated, of course, so a cultural difference might explain it) and is just as effective. At HEL, you can literally be boarding your airplane 20 minutes after you step into the terminal, and they're pretty damned sure that you don't have anything dangerous on your person.
Effective? Probably.
07-23-2008 | 08:38 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,244
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From: CL-65 captain
what ****es me off is the TSA was formed to "standardize" the security throughout all the nations airports, but I think we can all agree that it is not only incredibly inconsistent airport to airport, but also at different security checkpoints within the same airport. 3 times as inconsistent pre-tsa.
07-23-2008 | 09:33 AM
#67
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
'They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.' ~ BF
I recall the 4th amendment saying something about searches and seizures... But what do I know, I'm just a pilot.
Don't Tread on Me!!!
I recall the 4th amendment saying something about searches and seizures... But what do I know, I'm just a pilot.
Don't Tread on Me!!!
07-23-2008 | 09:44 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 294
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From: rear GV
Any pilot can access the cockpit and manipulate the controls/systems of aircraft to cause mass destruction. Thanks to background checks and the vetting process to become an airline pilot, this is unlikely. Seeing that every pilot is capable of such devastation, they should be inherently trusted.
If you consider CrewPass a weak point, then I'm assuming you're not an advocate of CASS and recommend that you commit to "jumpseat abstinence."
Crewpass is more secure, sophisticated, and centralized than ANY law enforcement officer database in the country. The verification process for LEOs doesn't hold a candle to CASS verification (this is coming from a former LEO).
If you consider CrewPass a weak point, then I'm assuming you're not an advocate of CASS and recommend that you commit to "jumpseat abstinence."
Crewpass is more secure, sophisticated, and centralized than ANY law enforcement officer database in the country. The verification process for LEOs doesn't hold a candle to CASS verification (this is coming from a former LEO).
07-23-2008 | 10:03 AM
#69
Thread Starter
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
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There is no standard! Some regions require a pilot to go through security to jumpseat after they already flew numerous legs that day as crew.
So let me understand the logic. I fly all day up front with opportunity to do harm if I wished. Now I am dead heading back home and now I have to leave the plane, pass security screening, and then get back on the plane.
There is no logic.
07-23-2008 | 10:09 AM
#70
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 172
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what ****es me off is the TSA was formed to "standardize" the security throughout all the nations airports, but I think we can all agree that it is not only incredibly inconsistent airport to airport, but also at different security checkpoints within the same airport. 3 times as inconsistent pre-tsa.
It is standardized though, we are all treated like crap and talked down to. Each TSA person has the same "higher" sense of "right".
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