Really? Wanna try to do something without the ramp or gates approval... You cant start an engine till they tell you... You can move till they allow it. You can board until they allow it... I would call that control my friend. Sure the Capt. still has the cockpit. But thats bout it. If they so wanted to, they could keep the flight crew corraled on the plane... and only allow the FO on the active ramp to do his walk...

Im not starting a fight here. Besides its not about I and you... Its about we... the team is what gets the job done, not jsut one or the other.

 

LOL, Are you serious?

 

Yeah, doesn't work like that.

I think the argument is who has legitimate control. The airplane "belongs" to the captain. Enough said. Can the gate agent prevent the flight by never allowing boarding? Of course. Can the ramp prevent the flight by not commencing pushback? Sure. But is this legitimate control? Not at all. It's overstepping their authority.

 

If you are so bold to say this I hope you are a regional driver. All that takes is a delay code and the carrier will find out why they didn't board, pushback etc. even a call to ops can fix this if they overstep their authority. We have turned the plane back to the gate before after we where told we couldnt wait at the gate because of weather, 1hr on the taxiway with ****ed off passengers a call to ops and what do you know.. a gate opens up. All ops wanted to know was what did the capt think. Don't think the capt doesnt have control at the end of the day. He/she does, read the regs 121/91/61 all pretty much says capt is the final authority. The only ppl that can stop a capt from boarding a j/s is fed and company. The engine start signals from rampers is a safety issue. They are our eyes outside the plane. The CANNOT just flat out push us back leave us on the ramp and tell us we cannot start without some good reason. An act like that would we challenged and the capt will win.

I have seen you once post something about your deployment. So I assume your military, so was I, enlisted. My airwing also had different departments that could stop a flight from going. But if we did, we had to have a good reason to and with auth. from our oic. A pvt. cannot just stop a flight because he didn't like a lt. If that flight was cancelled did it mean that that Pvt. had more authority then the flight crew? no. If the reason wasn't food enough the crew would just tell the CO and get a go/no go, even then CO would take the capt. advice under consideration. In the airlines line of work there are a lot of things that it has incommon with a military. Their has to be some kinda chain of command. The Capt is the final word before going to company and the company will see what the capt thinks.

Does this mean the gate agents have no control at all? no. They can turn away drunk passengers or whatever. If they slip by again the Capt. is the fail safe, if the FA tells him someone slipped by the capt can turn them away. What if the agent insistes on boarding the drunk passenger and the capt. want the passenger off? If they are even equals in authority then we have a problem here. We work in harmony here, we are each others check and balance but at the end of the day only one can make the final call, the Capt. This is also one reason why they get paid more, the burden of command.

 

Lemme give you just one example for what I am getting at. According to you, the gate runs the whole show, I as Captain am just a pawn to be pushed wherever I am needed, until I am unchoked and engines running....

Few weeks ago had a deferred APU AND jetbridge had no ground air. 95 degrees outside, probably 110 or so in the cabin, 120 in the cockpit. I politely told the gate agent when we were going to board, so he didnt have peeps sitting in that oven for the whole 25 minute boarding proccess. We were going to wait for the huffercart to arrive, then start boarding as fast as possible.

Well no sooner I get back down to stow my bags (30 minutes prior to departure) I hear him open the boarding door and make the we are now boarding PA. 5 people come down the jetbridge, I intercept them and escort them back to the gate. Gate argues with me we have to get this plane out on time. (yeah all doors closed with no air for 15-25 minutes? no thanks). He says he doesn't need the CA to be there to board, So I get the FA off the airplane so noone is on it and it it would be an FAA violation for him to board.
Huffer cart arrived, I cranked one up while boarding, out in 10 minutes.

That is Captain's authority, not gate agents authority. Lemme ask you this....had I boarded in that situation when the gate agent wanted me to and 3 old lady's and an infant got heat stroke and needed medical attention because they were in a 115 degree oven for 35-40 minutes, who would have gotten in trouble? (hint, not the gate agent)

 

Damn man, that gate agent had the guts to say that to the Capt? haha Our company requires the Capts ok and the FA ok to board.

 

Im not saying the Capt has no authority.

I understand your points.

The point I am making is this.

The gate Agent has a specific job to do. They have authority, as so far to do their job. The Rampers have the same authority. Nothing more. Nothing Less.

Every example I used, was at the gate, parked.

Can the Capt make Command decisions? Yes. Will Ops or management listen to the Capt over the Agent? Yes.

In the end, Each party has a specific job to do. Each has their own authority and own area of control. It does over lap in places. As I said, Its not about I or you. Its WE, We get teh job done. I cant load the plane, board it, and fly it alone. Neither can you.

As for my deployment, That was a unique analogy, but made perfect sense. However, I was not trying to imply the agent(private) ever over stepped their authority... I was only reffering to normal operations, and Agents doing things within their authority.

 

No offense man, but with the conditions you decribed here, I wouldn't have accepted this flight and airplane/gate equipment under these extremely hot conditions. THAT is Captains Authority my man. Too many regional captains seem to forget this. SAY NO. Tail swap the aircraft, or borrow an air cart from the competition or something. No ground air whatsoever in the summer HEAT? To let the company get away with this is rediculous, not to mention unhealthy and UNSAFE. It is called a summer OPS plan....and most companies have one. For goodness sake. We must put our feet down!

 

I agree, we have even gotten cups from the competition because we ran out and was at an out station. Thanks eagle that helped us out. Out on the line it is great to see us help one another out even if we don't work for the same company. Just like the military, this job is like a brotherhood. ooh-rah

 

did you miss the part where I refused to board until I had an engine running, therefore cooling down the plane enough to board? and that by the time we started boarding it MAY have been after sunset, thus cooling the temp almost 20 degrees instantly? No where did I say I DIDN"T call for an air cart... I didn't think I was going to have a lawyer analyze my post and have to give every single detail, just enlough to make the point of the argument...and did you even read the last sentence where obviously I said it was unsafe? I notice you left out the whole middle section of my quote where I made the no go decisions......

People read into everybody's posts waaay too deep and liteally on here. I could say I went to the car dealer to buy a VW bug and the sales man wanted me to pay $75000 for it. Then someone would post on here saying what an idiot I was for buying a $75000 VW. Never said I bought it!