Are you kidding me? The gate/ramp/meteringor whatever "controls" this area doesn't have final authority, or any for that matter. This is non-movement area, I can start both at the gate, push when I want, or anything else. Why you might ask, because they are there to make sure the planes arrive and depart the gates in a fluid manner with the least amount of friction.

Now if there was some sort of issue and you weren't listening to one of these gate/ramp/metering sure the FAA could hit you up with careless and reckless but seriously, CA rules the roost...that is why unable is a term used in communications.

Ok I am off the soap box....next?

 

umm i think atlmsl was actually on the CA's side, not the agents...

 

Here is your origanal post:

"Lemme give you just one example for what I am getting at. According to you, the gate runs the whole show, I as Captain am just a pawn to be pushed wherever I am needed, until I am unchoked and engines running....

Few weeks ago had a deferred APU AND jetbridge had no ground air. 95 degrees outside, probably 110 or so in the cabin, 120 in the cockpit. I politely told the gate agent when we were going to board, so he didnt have peeps sitting in that oven for the whole 25 minute boarding proccess. We were going to wait for the huffercart to arrive, then start boarding as fast as possible.

Well no sooner I get back down to stow my bags (30 minutes prior to departure) I hear him open the boarding door and make the we are now boarding PA. 5 people come down the jetbridge, I intercept them and escort them back to the gate. Gate argues with me we have to get this plane out on time. (yeah all doors closed with no air for 15-25 minutes? no thanks). He says he doesn't need the CA to be there to board, So I get the FA off the airplane so noone is on it and it it would be an FAA violation for him to board.
Huffer cart arrived, I cranked one up while boarding, out in 10 minutes.

That is Captain's authority, not gate agents authority. Lemme ask you this....had I boarded in that situation when the gate agent wanted me to and 3 old lady's and an infant got heat stroke and needed medical attention because they were in a 115 degree oven for 35-40 minutes, who would have gotten in trouble? (hint, not the gate agent)"


I read: (deferred APU, no ground air, 95 degrees outside and probably 110 or so in the cabin and 120 in the cockpit). This is not unrealistic for these conditions with ANY airplane.

As CRJ200 operators around the globe will attest, this aircraft CANNOT be cooled in 10 minutes from these temperatures with an APU and two engines running. Forget one engine alone at the gate! Please. Once it gets as hot as you say, even an hour flight later it's still hot.

Now, since this thread was about weight and balance issues but has undertones regarding 'captains authority', it caught my attention so I responded. I am not questioning exactly what transpired on your flight, nor what all the details were, but according to your post, life was pretty HOT. And under the conditions you have described, it seemed like every story of a summer-NO APU operation I've heard before.

Here's where I differ. NO APU, NO Ground Air, Over 90 degrees? NO GO. Period. There is no magic wand/quick turn/leave one engine running procedure that will keep this bird cool on the ground. The company and the Captain can take steps prior to departure to mitigate these conditions. I am not attacking you; merely the condition. I make sure the arrival station has and will use ground air under these conditions or MUST they make other arrangements.

Did you know that MOST stations have working ground air? And that SOME of these stations don't use it because the rampers are HOT too and it's too much work. But if you PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN, when it is needed, amazingly cooling air comes! It should be hooked up UPON ARRIVAL at the captains request.

I will not watch beads of sweat drip from the passengers and crew to simply chock up another on time departure and justify the company's irresponsibility. Again, please don't take this the wrong way - but this condition is one of my BIG pet peeves with the regional sector - and I'm not attacking you, just the condition.

Regards,

SL

 

1. Per my second post, I indicated that I never said I did not ask for ground air, how do you know I never had it hooked up eventually before we boarded? I said I cranked an engine while boarding, not that I was using at as sole source of air.

2. I've been flying CRJ's for 7 summers where it's always 95 during the day and the APU has always cooled it off in 10 minutes enough to board comfortably. Just make sure all gaspers are open, windows shut. Plus you assumed it was a CRJ-200, I said nowhere in the post what airframe it was. You also assumed I boarded immediately while it was still hot on the airplane.

3. I never said how late we were waiting for the cabin to cool. I said huffer cart arrived, we boarded. I didn't need to say it took 40 minutes to get the huffer. I said the boarding proccess took 10 minutes. We were an 45 minutes late. Plenty of time to get it cool....

Again, this is "Airline pilot Forum", not "Lawyer Forum", which is why every single detail and timeline is not in the post, just enough detail to show that if the gate agent wants to board and be out on time, and the CA doesn't, we don't board...

 

On a side note, you should have seen the look on the FAA inspector's face when a JAN gate agent refused to let him on the jumpseat because she didn't know how to list him

 

Re-read my post CAREFULLY, then try again.

 

It sounds like you two are saying the samething but in different words. Which is right in my opinion.