USMC3197

So is that why some low time academy pilots can pass their sims in 8 lessons plus the checkride and old 1500TT pilots with only steam gauge experience needs 10-20 lessons? (seen it happend a few times) These jets are glass and glass is the industry norm now. Younger lower times pilots trained in them and some old high time pilots never seen them. If you are a passenger in a helo, would you want a 500TT (all rotor time) pilot or a 5000TT (100hr rotor time) pilot?

The 1500TT absolutely has more experience but was it quality experience or just 1500hrs of crappy flying? Seen guys with that kind of time have trouble holding altitude in a 172! Yet I have also seen low time pilots with crappy skills also.

I think both sides have great points. I really don't think there is a good and bad answer to who would you rather have. I think each responce to this original question is valid. Just each individual pilot has to prove that they are airline commerical quality pilots. (whatever that is)

stobelma

But the fact is the experience DOES matter where you came from. How about this to look at it a different way. You have two captains. One was hired with 1200 hours and upgraded at 1500 TT to captain. The other got hired with 300 hours and upgraded at 1500 TT as well. You cannot tell me you would rather fly with captain number one. Captain number 2 has 4 times the amount of experience in the airplane with is way more valuable than captain number 1 having 1200 hours in a 172. I have flown with both and I will take the guy flying more 121 over the cessna driver any day.

I have also flown with captains who will take a good low hour FO over a high hour FO new hire any day. The low time guys learn much quicker the ways of flying for an airline the the high time new hires. The guys who had the most trouble in our ground school were the guys who had instructed forever. The low time guys and gays had much higher test schools and NONE of them failed the PC like half of the higher time people did. FOs are FOs to learn to be captains and low time guys most often learn much better. Most people are very resistant to change and if all a person knows is flying for the airlines, they will have fewer tendencies to go back to the old ways of thinking flying a 172.

Again it is two different mindsets and you can clearly see around the world that some airlines prefer low time guys whereas some prefer high time guys. Unless I see some hard statistics that show low time guys are dangerous and should not be in the cockpit, then I will believe you but until then I guess it will keep this thread alive.

Again you use words like "whizkid" because I am guessing you most likely were one of the ones to have to instruct for a long time to get into a regional which is fine. Attack the system.....not the people

tpersuit

CA #1 also has almost 1000 PIC time when he upgrades. So who would you rather fly with; CA #1 with 1000 PIC or CA #2 with barely any?

Being a PIC over another pilot (aka students) is a very valuable experience and directly translates to taking over the CA duties and helping out the FO.

However, CA #2 has 1200 hours of 121 experience where as CA #1 only has 300 hours. Can't compare the two too much.

Be Realistic

Oh the sound of the hours verses experience argument again!

It will never end. Some will consistantly argue for CFI / CFII before B1900 before 737 before 747. All to get valuable experience.

Yet in another thread on this forum, there is a 16,000hr guy with his head up is ass about a mesa flight, who ovbiously knows nothing for all that experience.

So will there ever be compomise? Not as long as that pre-historic term "paying dues" is out there.

Rest of the world - focuses on quality of training and selection. Then the captain mentors them to become future captains.

The BA 777 flight that just made it to the runway at Heathrow after engine failure, had the FO at the stick. The captain sat there as SOP stated and did PNF duties. That FO was hired with 250hrs straight onto a 737.

I still maintain the best capatain I ever flew with is 25, upgraded at 23, zero dual given. Just knew his stuff.

Still this will argument will never end.

whiskey72

Just bear with me, it's meant to be funny.

Course in 8 hours do you know what I could do with my XBOX360 on a snowboard in amped? I could ride a ski lift wire for 1000 yards and do triple back flips off 300 foot drops with 10 seconds of freefall.

LOL I've only snowboarded once before in real life though. But I'm thinking about going out and trying it again now that I've got some hypothetical sim time.

The point being, there are great guys at both levels. I've seen 300 hour guys that are remarkable and I've see 10000 hour plus guys that I've questioned. We had a guy so stuck in his ways (was here over 20 years I believe) that clogged up ny airspace so bad he was fired. Just goes to show ya.

Mason32

Spoken like a true 400 hour wonder. I'd take the guy/gal with 1500TT and 100 Rotor. He/she has seen more then the 400 hour know it all.

There is a reason the 135 rules require 500TT for day VFR and 1200TT for IFR to fly a simple 172 delivering packages or people.... it is single pilot, and with less than that level of experience most typically have not developed a high level of aeronautical decision making. The reason 121's can hire 400 hour wonder kids is because they are not in command, and by the time they do get to be in command (hopefully) they will have seen enough, and learned enough to be able to make sound decisions.

Are there stories of people doing 1400 hours in a 150 in day VFR doing traffic reporting or things like that... absolutely it happens... and typically those planes are not the best maintained, and those folks have dealt with their share of emergencies... however, the vast majority of folks with the 1500 hour plus, have been doing much more significant type of flying, in a multitude of different equipment types.

Do "new" pilots have a slight advantage at flying the video game? Sure they do, they were raised playing video games... however, these same wonder kids are not better then a more seasoned pilot with the crap hits the fan. I have seen, and heard, of many new guys basically freezing up when the master caution, or master warning went off in flight... they became virtually useless to their Captains.

The guys that you are disparaging tend to be more calm in those situations... in fact, I sat next to one guy, who when something very unexpected happened... started laughing, and said "hey, look at that; ok, AOM volume 1, XYZ checklist." It was much easier to work as a team with somebody who had dealt with emergencies in the past, than to teach the new kid that the plane isn't going to fall out of the sky unless you let it, so grab the cheklist.

The aeronautical decision making of the recent batch of new hires at most airlines seems to be fairly consistant... they are not thinking ahead of the airplane and are still working at seminole speeds. This will get cured in time... I hope. I do know our IOE instructors have been complaining that they used to provide orientation to airline ops, and pointers and techniques to make the systems work better for pax comfort and stuff liek that... now they say they are teaching how to fly. IOE has gone from 25 hours to 75 hours... and the line Capt's are having problems with the newbies too.

Moral of the story.... new isn't always better.

ExperimentalAB

Negative. I was one of those whizkids. And yes, I made it through a training program that washed out half of my class, and many of the most experienced. I know what I'm talking about, my friend. Without citing extraordinary examples, those whizkids, as a whole, are way behind the curve.

SkyHigh

Plenty of airline accidents have been blamed on an old timer becoming complacent however I have never heard of one being blamed on lack of experience.

Skyhigh

ExperimentalAB

Maybe so. But what about violations??

Bond

I'm going to have to disagree with you there buddy. Stats from the training center will show that once you get 1000 hours on the right seat of the jet it's all even Steven. About 95% of the captains at our company (XJT) have well over 1000 hours in type (at the time of upgrade), and quite frankly is impossible to tell the difference in their background. I've flown with captains that were hired with 500 hrs and upgraded with 2000 total, and they were no different than the guys that got hired with 1500 hours, they handled any and all situations with the same level of skill and professionalism.

Don't believe me, ask any check airman and/or flght instructor.