Colgan 3407 Update
03-31-2009 | 07:31 AM
#61
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 413
Likes: 2
From: B757F CA
Privately, I told my FOs to disregard what they have been told by company and FAA concerning a stall recovery which is to hold positive pitch attitude and add power. That will kill us all! If a full wing stall develops, first pitch down until the stall brakes and then add power.
You obviously have little to no experience flying swept wing aircraft. If you pitch down in jets in the pre-stall, you are in for a world of hurt and TONS of altitude lost.
Last edited by IQuitEagle; 03-31-2009 at 07:56 AM.
03-31-2009 | 10:12 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,847
Likes: 10
This shows an astounding lack of understanding of stall protection systems. The SPS activates PRE-stall, not when the wing is actually stalled. So in a "normal" stall with the shaker going off, dropping the nose by a significant amount is a no-no. The pusher will do its job, and if you get closer to the critical AOA and closer to actually stalling the wings, the nose will be forced down.
You obviously have little to no experience flying swept wing aircraft. If you pitch down in jets in the pre-stall, you are in for a world of hurt and TONS of altitude lost.
You obviously have little to no experience flying swept wing aircraft. If you pitch down in jets in the pre-stall, you are in for a world of hurt and TONS of altitude lost.
03-31-2009 | 02:48 PM
#63
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 413
Likes: 2
From: B757F CA
I think we'll all agree that the point of the shaker is to avoid the pusher. Don't let it get to that point! Remember, we're not trained to recover from a stall, only an approach to stall. Holding altitude during shaker is perfectly safe and acceptable, but your quoted poster is also correct in that once that pre-stall develops into a full stall then nose down is the only way to save your bacon.
Vmc is only going to be a problem if you lose an engine. If you have the bad luck to be stalling, and in the recovery suddenly lose an engine and begin to Vmc, then you probably should have stayed home that day! But in that rare instance, yes you have to push nose down, obviously.
03-31-2009 | 06:40 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Military Flight Instructor
This shows an astounding lack of understanding of stall protection systems. The SPS activates PRE-stall, not when the wing is actually stalled. So in a "normal" stall with the shaker going off, dropping the nose by a significant amount is a no-no. The pusher will do its job, and if you get closer to the critical AOA and closer to actually stalling the wings, the nose will be forced down.
You obviously have little to no experience flying swept wing aircraft. If you pitch down in jets in the pre-stall, you are in for a world of hurt and TONS of altitude lost.
You obviously have little to no experience flying swept wing aircraft. If you pitch down in jets in the pre-stall, you are in for a world of hurt and TONS of altitude lost.
I am here to tell you that the Q400 is very easy to over pitch-up during this pitch-up and power stall recovery procedure which easily leads to stick pusher activation. Stick pusher/pilot induced oscillations are difficult to avoid in the Q400 especially with an inexperienced pilot at the controls. I understand that the Captain barely had 100 hours in the Q400.
I have also observed that pilots who are very new to vertical tape airspeed indicators tend to pitch to the direction of the desired airspeed indicated on the vertical tape. Higher airspeeds are shown up on the tape and lower airspeeds are shown down.
03-31-2009 | 07:03 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,001
Likes: 0
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]I strongly believe we have been training Q400 pilots a flawed procedure for the approach to stall recovery. The book response to a stick shaker activation calls for back pressure on the yoke to maintain pitch attitude and setting max power, essentially to power out of the stall.
. . . Stick pusher/pilot induced oscillations are difficult to avoid in the Q400 especially with an inexperienced pilot at the controls . . .
. . . pilots who are very new to vertical tape airspeed indicators tend to pitch to the direction of the desired airspeed indicated on the vertical tape.
. . . Stick pusher/pilot induced oscillations are difficult to avoid in the Q400 especially with an inexperienced pilot at the controls . . .
. . . pilots who are very new to vertical tape airspeed indicators tend to pitch to the direction of the desired airspeed indicated on the vertical tape.
04-01-2009 | 07:21 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Military Flight Instructor
04-01-2009 | 12:09 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,001
Likes: 0
My question still remains:
Are you advocating modifying the stall recovery technique of an aircraft to adjust for these [inability to control aircraft pitch, inability to fly glass] inadequacies?
04-01-2009 | 01:01 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,244
Likes: 0
From: CL-65 captain
yeah ive noticed that many a time...
However, on the onset of a stall (shaker/buffet/pusher/horn whatever) do you really look at your airspeed tape, or are you just programmed to immediately add power and decrease AOA?
Last edited by mooney; 04-01-2009 at 01:32 PM.
04-01-2009 | 01:24 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,847
Likes: 10
We cover everything up with bandaids, it seems...instead of attacking the root of the problem when brought to light, we "fix" it with more automation...That's the way of the world.
04-01-2009 | 01:25 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,847
Likes: 10
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
