If people do end up having to go and take ATP rides in a light twin can you imagine what the DE's are going to charge for that coveted check ride?? They already charge between $300 and $400, if it becomes a requirement for future job progression the rates could go through the roof!

 

I don't know the answer to this so that's why I ask. What is tested on an ATP in a light twin? How much different is it from a commercial checkride? I guess I could always look it up, but I'm sure someone here has the answer.

 

If the law passes (and I hope it does), the active f/o's will be grandfathered until such time as their airline can catch up during a PC. Now for guys that are not 23 just yet, more than likely, they will get a frozen ATP. It's simple really, I really do hope it passes.

 

Sorry, but the bill as written does NOT include any waiver or grandfathering of existing pilots, so the requirement applies to everybody... why would you need to include another section in the bill to repeat that it already applies to everybody? It just gives people already there three years to get their ATP.

As for forcing the companies to provide the ATP... I think that is yet another example of the younger type of pilots that have been getting hired the last few years that come in with an attitude of entitlement.
It wasn't good enough that they got hired at a part 121 airline with only 250 hours, now they want the airline to pay for their ATP too....
Does this mean that ALL of the pilots who were hired WITH their ATP's can get a stipend check since they won't cost all this extra money?

WOW, this gets better everyday....

I guess the vast majority of us who worked as CFI's, flew boxes all night for a living, worked our way up, and had thousands of hours on the ATP ticket we already had BEFORE even getting a 121 interview shouldn't be surprised by this latest cry from the "me" generation.

So, since your objective of this thread is to keep this focused on the including a "retroactive" part of the legislation, I would suggest you back and read it again... since it already is.

 

I think what some of us had to do to get our 1st airline job "back in the day" is pretty irrelevant. It is what it is today.

And it's very likely that a clause will be inserted grandfathering current pilots. I would think both the unions and management would be campaigning for that.

 

I think we're all getting worked up over the term "grandfather" for no good reason. I view the bill as giving a grace period to currently employed pilots without an ATP. I have also used the term grandfather to describe that grace period. Maybe it's not the most correct use of the term, but I to many it means a grace period.

 

I think that is probably the most unlikely thing that could happen.

The entire reason the Congress has taken up this issue is because of the Failure of the FAA to address the issue, and the magnitude of media exposure of this one accident.

The motivation is to increase safety for passengers, or at least give the impression that Congress is acting to increase safety. Grandfathering does NOTHING to increase safety, or the public perception of increasing safety. These people will be running again soon, and passing a bill that doesn't require any change to existing standards just allows more of the same to continue... I know it's BS, you know it's BS, but it is about the perception for the media and the public... which is why they will not grandfather existing pilots who are of the same skill level and training as the crash pilots.

They will have a grace period, to allow existing pilots to obtain the required ratings and in some cases the required PIC time, to obtain the ATP license.... But that is not grandfathering.

 

Since the ATP requirement did not exist when they were hired, you could reasonably expect the company to provide it. You need the ATP to upgrade, and they provide that with the checkride, right?

Especially since it can be done on a normal PC, with possibly a couple of extra maneuvers.

 

I think their schoolhouse can administer the ATP in conjunction with a type rating checkride... I don't think they are authorized to administer an ATP rating by itself without doing a type rating as well. Now, if they are going to type every FO, it would probably work.

 

Depending on what type of program they have (AQP, conventional, or a hybrid), there will need to be slight changes to encompass the ATP, that being said, you can have a scenario where they give you just the ATP, and not the type 'til you upgrade.

The main concern should be with the guys that are under 23, for which I think the only logical scenario is a frozen ATP.